In this short clip, Patrick Bet-David & Michael Malice debate how anarchy won’t work in a capitalistic society.
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I I I'm favor of order I don't think law Is a good mechanism of getting order Okay so what order are you a fan of just The people in the community deciding What it is or I'm in favor of people Behaving peacefully which is uh Overwhelming the norm and in fact the Problem is that so much crime is granted Legitimacy and is not punished as a Consequence due to having a monopoly in Policing Okay so you're not a fan of law now I I Think having a monopoly means that Product or service is not going to be Distributed well or if at all we have Right now and no one even thinks this is Weird prosecutors a lot of times I'd be Like yeah I'm not going to prosecute This how is that law that's crazy I understand you're taking one one Element of it but if you uh we had Gordon Chang on I don't know if you know Gordon Chen is so Gordon Chen who lived In uh China for 20 some years and uh he Says China was a mess when there was no Law because little to no law and he says In 1984 some number like that he said There was 40 uh universities that gave Away law degrees because it wasn't Something that was popular and they Realized capitalism uh doesn't work Without laws because somebody can bully And take advantage of the other person What is your POV of not needing laws
Wait wait I I I find it crazy to think That there's no bullying in China Especially via the state I mean the Whole point of the Communists less than Before this is why their Innovation grew The way it has the last 40 years because They added laws which they didn't have Before but they they did have laws but That law is basically the will of Whoever the CP official was like and That's the problem the problem is the Laws don't apply to you know Joe Biden Or Donald Trump like they would apply to You or me or to someone who's much Poorer than us if you had a system where Services are provided uh by Freedom uh It's going to be a lot more Equitable And it's going to be a lot more coherent Because if I am trying to get I'm Promoting a product or service I need to Be able to put my money where my mouth Is whereas if a cop shoots someone it's Like well oops you're just going to be Suspended and get a pension it's Absolutely the double standard between Something with the Monopoly and Something that is provided when there's An element of competition is just night And day so you're saying if there's no Cops people won't ride I'm just saying There's no I was saying if there's no Government monopoly there's no Government cops let's just say there's No government I'll give you an example
That's happening this isn't hypothetical Yeah so everyone here if you go to a bar Which is full of young males full of Testosterone and alcohol it is still Safer there than in the places where the Government is providing security such as City parks at night alleys the Subways When you have there's no incentive for a Government monopoly to provide its Service and in fact the worse it Provides a service the more taxes the Politicians are there in a position to Demand that the populace pay in because They could say look we have a problem we Need more of this we need more of that So when things are provided privately And you at hotels is another good Example everyone in a hotel is uh not Native to the area where they're in it's Still safer in a hotel than in public Housing where everyone actually lives There and you know who lives there you Sound so convincing how do you argue With this but but here's the part you Sound so convincing if your ideas are so Perfect the way you sell them how come Others are not implementing it you can't Tell me it's because well you know the Way the world has ruled is the people of Power are so power hungry that they Eventually go up there and all of them Unite and they don't want to do any Anything and they're not willing to give Up their powers and their Privileges and
This is why the idea of Anarchy has Never been because I get it and these Other guys don't right so if it's so Perfect the way you do it they say Perfect if it's if it's as good as the Way you sell it right why aren't smart People out there implementing it because The government co-ops smart people the Whole point of our University system is To train the next generation of maybe 80. you want to hear my answer maybe 80 There's a couple of things first of all Is I should I think all of us would Agree here yeah that alcohol prohibition Was a bad idea which did not I don't Think at all decrease the amount of Alcohol consumption in this country or Maybe marginally but vastly increase the Amount of crime in this country how was It that alcohol prohibition was such a Popular idea that it got two-thirds of The Congress and uh was it three Quarters of the states to ratify it Because there's very many examples To broader speaking politics are Non-rational There's an entire system in place where People will vote for their tribe as Opposed to the other tribe and not Really care if any of their ideas or Views are implemented just so long as Their team wins and we which is Something we're taught if you ask Conservatives why are you voting for Dr
Oz He supported Jesse Smollett he Supported uh uh trans kids they're gonna Say well what do you want me to do Vote For fetterman This these are my only Options so we're trained since kids that Your only options are voting and those Two choices are Republican or Democrat No I don't disagree with that I don't Disagree with with what you just said And also one more thing just sorry this Is very key because Um Noam Chomsky who's also an anarchist a Prominent linguist as well he has this Great quote I'm sorry I'm going to Butcher the exact wording he goes the Way to control a society is to have Strictly delineated terms of argument But have very vigorous debate between Those terms so you're a Jimmy Dora I Don't know if you ever had him on the Show just great I'm surprised gnome said That and when I asked him if he would Ever debate Thomas Soul he avoided it Well I'm not surprised that's right yeah I'm very surprised he didn't want to Talk to Thomas yeah he was on two weeks Ago Jimmy's great but he he gave an Example of this like if you watch like The view the choices are going to be Should we can I curse yeah should we Bomb the [ __ ] out of Syria or should we Bomb the [ __ ] [ __ ] out of Syria right We're always presented with a very
Limited range of options on and then you Think okay I either have CNN or Fox but That's basically where the Overton Window lies so any ideas that are Radical threat to the governing Structure are going to be marginalized And you're going to be told until very Recently when you had independent venues Like this this that you're crazy or this Is impossible or it'll never happen and For many people there is a still to this Day there is a huge social cost in Adopting an there's a huge social cost In adopting an ideology that's regarded As marginal or unpopular I don't know About that I don't think it's a social Cost no I I I I okay so what I think You're doing is super necessary is Because you're you're making people Think right you're making people think And say okay He sounds convincing he sounds very Confident doesn't necessarily mean You're right but it's good the fact that You're we're having this Discord right And the audience can be like well Pat You made a good point you don't know What you're talking about you need to do Your research on this but you got to go Read this here's one okay well Michael You Patrick asked that question you Didn't really give the right answer then Great let them decide on what they want To do but but here's the part so what I
Think has happened the last few years is We've shown with this tool we got right Now whatever 9 100 people live watch and By the time this is going to be done Within a two-hour period a hundred Thousand people will watch it 24 hours All the clips together say we got four Or five million people that watch this To get this argument okay We didn't have this 20 years ago correct Right so 20 years ago Michael malice you would have had to Gone the traditional way of maybe Instead of sleeping nine hours you would Have slept in seven and a half hours to Make it because a tool like this is an Out there to Market it so it would have Been much harder for a guy like you to Make it to where you are today right Today the tools allow you to live the Life that you've always dreamed about Living which is phenomenal yes however Here's what I think is this tool is Given And you may disagree if 20 years ago Somebody said guys In 20 years Trans people are going to be accepted Men are going to be transitioning into Uh women and competing and the Democratic party who's always been they Claim they're four women they're Feminists They're going to be okay with men
Saying they're women Competing against women beating records And they're going to be cornered to and Trans they're going to be all over the Place and Drew Barrymore is going to Bring a person and Dylan and she's going To get on her knees in front of him and Say I totally understand your pain That'll never happen I'm telling you That's what's going to happen but let me Tell you what else is going to happen What's that you don't think these CNN The fox all these guys yeah what about Them they're gonna get crushed By this guy named Joe What are you talking about just regular It's just a regular Joe he's not a Regular Joe I'm telling you CNN and fox Are going to be crushed by a guy named Joe What does this guy do is he a Billionaire does he have more money than Them no he just talks and makes people Think and brings different people on so What has he done do you know marijuana That it's illegal today yeah that guy's Gonna make people think marijuana is not A big deal and matter of fact he's going To bring the richest guy in the world on And that guy's gonna smoke weed And then he's gonna the next day the Market's gonna come after him but now Smoking weed is no longer what it was Before get the hell out of you Michael
You're out of your mind that'll never Happen in America conservative no it is It is I'm telling you and you're not Even going to think twice when last week I'm in Bahamas three four days ago I Mean the other day I'm in a game we'll Walk by my kids what is that smell it's A uh what is that animal that smells Like weed it's a uh skunk skunk oh That's what a skunk smells like you Didn't know yeah that's a skunk I'm like Oh really yeah that's a skunk sound That's what it is okay cool that's not Skunk man it's like five minutes later Dylan's smiling I'm like no wonder this Guy's so happy right now so no one cares About smoking weed today 20 years ago Was crazy so this is the point I'm Trying to make to you Michael and take This personal I want you to get upset I'm not gonna get it and say screw you Pat I'm not gonna say it yeah that's Good here's what I would say If the last 20 years some of the Craziest wackiest ideas Are now being talked about and some of The things that the conservatives would Have never accepted are now saying it's Just weed maybe your argument isn't that Good or maybe you're just not good at Presenting your argument for other People to pick it up because if there's Ever been a time to sell your Philosophies to be received by millions
Of people around the world now is the Time how come there's not that kind of Momentum yet the anarchist handbook hit Number three on Amazon uh 20 years ago That book wouldn't have been published Uh so if you're asking me why we haven't Gone from uh the state in 2003 to Anarchism today I haven't been at it That long secondly I don't think you're Going to deny regard if you look at Social media and other outlets which are Imperfect but certainly uh loose vectors Uh or metrics rather by how popular Ideas are the views that I'm putting Forward are infinitely more popular than They were 20 years ago and it is a Result of exactly what you're talking About the fact that now you do not when We were before we were born I think you And I around the same age you had three Television stations and it's ABC NBC CBS And if you argue if you went back in Time and you're like you've got they're Like we have choices my friend really Loves CBS but he's an idiot you know you Got to listen to ABC and what it all was Was corporate media and they all Basically had the same message if not It's not identical message nowadays then Fox started and it's like oh my God we Have Fox we gotta put fox out of Business these people are crazy I think Most people need it enough to look at Fox they think that the average age of a
Fox viewer is deceased and that it is to Regard Fox as a vector of kind of Radicalism as opposed to maybe like a Hardcore Republican Outlet is absurd You're not going to really find much Radicalism on Fox other than maybe Sometimes the mask rather you know what Would be a great commercial you know Would be a great commercial you just Give give me an idea if CNN or or any of These guys wanted to kind of make a Commercial to bashfox all they have to Do is go uh rent out a cemetery put a TV There and Fox TV all over the place Saying the only people that listen to Fox are dead people listen to CNN listen To ABC that'd be a that'd be a pretty Let me let me ask you this so your your Position is that it's a great thing that This train this trans steps happening in Sports Uh no I don't think I'm just saying if If a crazy idea like that has created This kind of momentum how come your Wonderful idea hasn't I don't think that Ideas uh necessarily become popular as a Function of how true or or but I think Joe's idea is a great idea to create a Momentum and people who were not on his Side said that makes sense right so what I'm saying is sometimes great ideas do Catch Fire and become popular and Sometimes really deranged ideas do Catch Fire and become popular because we do
Because how ideas are formed in this Country and in most countries isn't a Function of people sit down they do the Research they look at both sides and They kind of maybe argue with their Neighbors this is just this Enlightenment delusion about how people Come to the proof of conclusions people Far often read Jonathan Heights book The Righteous Mind people come to their uh Um political conclusions for Evolutionary reasons meaning I wanted The bandwagon effect you know when uh After Kennedy was shot they asked people Who you voted for in the 1960 election Which was the closest selection in History and the percentage of people who Had remembered I think sincerely that They had voted with Kenny over Nixon was Far more than the number of people Actually did it because we tend to want To think of ourselves as being on The Winning Side low status people have an Enormous incentive to not rock the boat Because they're not in a position to Kind of have radical ideas because think About if I go to an office and I have Some kind of wacky ideology and I'm not Empowered right away I'm out group so This is one of the many reasons why Ideas that are radical are not necessary But but it's something broader I don't Care about popularity of an idea because I don't think politics is moved by the
Majority politics is often I don't Disagree let me just finish politics is Always moved by an informed ideological Usually radicalized minority and this Country was founded by a bunch of very Small percentage of people who had a Vision and they didn't even bother Asking the masses what they thought so Then that then that says if since 1539 This has been an idea how come it's died I don't think it's died at all I think The idea that government is inherently Legitimate is more popular now I don't Think that's an anarchy philosophy I Think that is that's the definition of Anarchy no but but a lot of people both On the left and the right would agree That the government uh is too big I Didn't say too big not the government Government itself the concept so in your World there shouldn't be a government or The idea of the government is not Legitimate yes I don't think people Would say the legitimate define Legitimate something uh legitimate for a Government to be legitimate means it is In a moral position to enact its edicts Upon its subjects Okay so so if if so in in other words I Don't think government is a legitimate Meaning it's not necessary no it's Doesn't like I don't have a right to go In your wallet and take money right but Somehow the withholding tax is where
People think well you pack taxes are the Price you pay for civilized society that To me and to other anarchists is not Legitimate so if you like this clip and You want to watch another one click Right here and if you want to watch the Entire podcast click right here [Music]
