How To Build A Million Dollar Marketing Agency In 1 Year – Carrie Rose (Rise at Seven)

Carrie Rose is the 29 year old co-founder and CEO of leading search-first creative agency Rise at Seven. Rise at Seven was founded in 2019 and in its first year brought in $1.8 million in revenue from working with some of the biggest names in the business, including ASOS and PlayStation. Fast forward to year 3 and this became $9 million and she’s also expanding her to the US as well. Carrie is an absolute powerhouse in the PR industry and in the episode she offers so much valuable business advice from how to pitch, to getting investments and also shares what she’s learned about marketing and advertising while growing her business. We also talk about teenage Carrie, and the challenges she faced in her early life, growing up in a disadvantaged area as well as dealing with grief from a young age and how that played a role in her journey to become the CEO she is today. Carrie is probably the most down to earth, positive vibes person we’ve had on the podcast so far and I really hope you enjoy the conversation as much as I did.

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01:55 Your early life and background
08:37 Experiencing grief
15:35 Dealing with university
19:15 How you confidently network with anyone
22:50 Getting obsessed with SEO
29:40 Learning PR
48:50 The principles around marketing
58:01 Your business plan for The Apprentice
01:05:29 Starting your agency
01:18:39 Pitching to brands
01:19:35 What are the characteristics of an A-player?
01:27:48 Men vs women in the workplace
01:31:40 How has your relationship with money changed?
01:41:28 Your future plans
01:44:13 What’s you personal mission?


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Hey friends and welcome back to Deep Dive the weekly podcast where every week It's my immense privilege to sit down With academics and authors and creators And entrepreneurs and other inspiring People and we find out how they got to Where they are and the strategies and Tools we can learn from them to help us Build a life that we love Carrie Rose is The 29 year old co-founder and CEO of The creative agency rise at seven Working with some of the biggest brands In the world including Asos and Playstation the company's grown to over 9 million dollars and now carries Expanding the company to the us as well At one time I saw someone and they was Like what are you doing I thought I own My own businesses are amazing Anne but Yeah yeah I've got office in New York I've always been like what now this Conversation with Carrie completely blew My mind because she is an absolute Powerhouse when it comes to sales and Marketing and public relations PR stuff In particular and a bunch of cool things That she's learned around advertising And marketing as she's been growing her Business if we was running misguided Marketing strategy this is what we would Do so often we have to come up with PR Idea social ideas strategies of how we Can convert customers better than they Are currently and things like that

Carrie is also a champion for diversity And inclusion in the workplace and she's Made it a priority to create a company Culture that uplifts and values all Voices we also talk a little bit about Teenage Carrie and the disadvantages and Struggles that she faced earlier in life Growing up in a disadvantaged area and Dealing with grief from a very young age And how all of that stuff played a role In her journey to becoming the CEO and Co-founder that she is today I live in a Cancer State on my life so people didn't Go to UNI where I was from and I made it And I did it and I proved everyone wrong He would just be so proud so so but I Don't get me emotional he will just be So proud and I think it's just because He knows how resilient I am Um oh my God why am I crying what the Hell at the moment according to the YouTube analytics 81 of you who are Watching this on YouTube have not yet Hit the Subscribe button and so if You're for example in the now 81 of People who are watching this on YouTube But who are not subscribed to the Channel I would love it if you could do So and would be awesome to get that Number down to 50 and it would be cool To get like 50 50 sub non-sub ratio just Just for fun all right Carrie thank you So much for coming on podcast thank you Uh so much to dig into with your story I

Wonder if we can start with what were Things like when you were in school Because I guess kind of stunning were There often kind of paints an Interesting picture of how people grow Okay growing to become entrepreneurs Sure Um I was the typical loud I wouldn't say Naughty kid but I would say cheeky so I Didn't really do anything like really Annoy but I was the class clown like Lots of friends very popular you know Like having fun and all that sort of Thing but I was always that kid at School that was quite I guess couple People called me lucky because I never Revised I never really kind of read Books or studied or did my homework but I always got really good good grades so Teachers hated me for it which is really Weird Um I remember the day that I collected My gcses my English teacher threw the Envelope at me and she was like how the Hell have you done that and I was like I Opened it and I got like an A and I was Like I don't know so I was quite lucky But I do think it was just I was I was Often told by my teachers I was a very Good blogger and I used to think that Was an offensive thing but I actually Took as a compliment Um because I was I was able to tell Really good stories through English or

Math or whatever it was Um so yeah I was kind of like quite Cheeky at school got in a bit of trouble I guess just by kind of like taking a Lot of friends on the journey with me And you know not really focusing on Class but I ended up doing quite well Grades-wise so I think that's a lucky Thing so if um let's say 16 year old Curry could have seen you now would she Have been like surprised at uh kind of You becoming an entrepreneur or would Have been like oh of course that was Gonna happen 100 I think yeah I think like people thought I would more Than likely I don't know not like down Talking working as a waitress all my Life but like just kind of I was more About my friends than actual education Or career or anything like that it was All about having fun and so I think yeah Looking back people would be surprised And actually they are like I have a lot Of teachers that I you know when you see A teacher in Tesco and they're like Hello I haven't seen you for a while and One one time I saw someone and they was Like what are you doing I thought I own My own business and oh amazing and when I started describing it then oh you Really well but yeah yeah I've got an Office in New York I've got something Like what So that was like yeah I think if we look

Back and think like myself when I was 16 Or myself you know or teachers or Anything yeah I think they'll be very Surprised at where I'm at right now oh Fantastic so that's that's very like Refreshing to hear like um I've Interviewed a bunch of entrepreneurs on The podcast like I'd say 95 of them are Like hustling selling [ __ ] when they Were younger or like building websites Or like doing business from the age of 13. yeah and so it's unusual to speak to Someone for whom that would have been a Complete surprise yeah um so we'll Definitely talk about how how that kind Of changed along the way so it sounds Like in school you were the popular one You managed to kind of black your way Into good grades yeah if I can kind of Phrase it in those terms and then you Decide to go to university yeah well Funny enough so my family where I come From and we're not very wealthy no one Went to University to be honest I didn't Even know what university was I remember Getting really good grades and went and Doing a levels and I didn't at the time Knew what I wanted to do so I remember Going to my mum and saying Mom I don't Really know what to do and she said okay Well when you don't know what to do you Need to spread spread it out go study Business go study a language so what I Studied was business Spanish media

Because I like to be creative and Psychology you know wide variety of Subjects Um went to college and studied that and Ended up getting really good grades Again so I got like a b b something like That and I remember my teacher pulling Me aside and saying Carrie what you're Going to do now I was like I don't know What what do I do I apply for jobs and She was like have you thought about uni I was like what's uni I didn't even know What it was like none of our family had Been to UNI no one spoke to me about uni And I was like well you've got really Good grades to get into one of the top Universities you know Leeds University Was always one that I looked at at the Time and it was like you should apply How do I apply so she actually stayed With me till like 10 p.m kind of thing We wrote These I don't know what it was Called at the time but like you know Like a cover letter kind of yeah apply For uni and um I got in I got into the Top uni Um so yeah I remember going home and Saying to my mom I think I'm gonna go to UNI she's like what you can't go to you You can't look after yourself because I Was a bit of like messy room kid you Know like that type of kid Um and yeah I packed my bags and moved To leaves and I never went back nice

So as you can see it was very much like Unplanned yeah Whirlwind and that's Still what I'm like today What was the rest of your like friends Like were they all going to UNI or was It that like an unusual thing for your Friendship group yeah quite usual and I Was like a typical kind of kid that had A lot of friends that maybe felt Pregnant at a young age and probably Came from Council I live in a council State all my life so people didn't go to UNI where I was from and if you did you Was usually part of like a rich family If that makes sense Um so I did have one friend that went to UNI but she was a couple of years Younger than me so she kind of went After me and actually I influenced her To do that but most of her friends Didn't and so it was quite a scary thing For me to do and but one thing I am is Extremely confident and that's Definitely part of what my dad drilled Into me I just I was like yeah I can go Judy I can do that like I always believe I can do anything and that's the mindset I had even my you know whatever held me Back I can still do it so um yeah Despite friends not really following me On that journey and I went off alone That's what I remember that you said Your your dad drilled it into you what Do you mean

So we're a big family so I have six Sisters we all start with the letter c We'll call ourselves a killer Kardashians Um wild household as you can imagine so My dad obviously with loads of girls in The house Um we're all very different so some of Them have big families or loads of kids Um my mum was always really weird hard Working and that's what inspired me and I guess I'm the youngest out of the six Um and those my sisters didn't Necessarily end up in successful jobs Didn't really build careers for Themselves and my dad always drilled it Into me at a young age he's like whisper In my ear when I was like seven you're Different you're gonna be good you've Got you know stick to it stick to it you Like stay focused don't let anyone tell You you can't do anything so you drilled That into me Um and even him so he like kind of like Ran a business himself he was a bit of Like an old school farmer and he ran a Business himself to a point where when I Used to come home from school he used to Have like cash lying around the house And he used to go around count it and That's how I look at maths so like he he Just kind of gave me the confidence that I could achieving things that makes Sense

Um and he was one that drilled into me And I don't know why he took a lightning To me specifically as the young baby Because he I was Daddy's girl but my mum Always said he stuck to you differently Like he's like he saw something in you So but I think that's what gave me that Confidence to to go and go get it Basically yeah yeah it sounds like both Your parents were pretty supportive then Yeah I'd say so uh it's it's quite a Drastic I guess background because Um so obviously he gave me all this Confidence and stuff my Dad and Mum Broke up when I was like what 12 but They still stay friends which was really Nice to see and but then my dad had a Sudden heart attack and died and Obviously for me who was like Daddy's Girl that like turned my world upside Down but I think so obviously this was The time I was 15 so what would I have Been doing a levels then yeah so yeah That was that yeah it was just before A Levels yeah it was it was GCSE Um so when I got my good grades and when Everyone was like oh you should go to a Levels and I was obviously just a little Bit like a whirlwind child of like what Should I do next but obviously he was That motivation of yeah I can do this so I think that really was like The thing that driven me to keep going And you know you can achieve anything

And I think when you do have someone Like a family member pass or like a dad Or like a parent or anything I think you End up doing it for them rather than Anyone else so I think that's a big Driver especially when I was younger Yeah Well that That must have been really tough when You were 15 to cope with that oh yeah Yeah how did you cope with it what was That like I didn't for a long time I'd never lost Anybody so like you know when people Have like a grandma that's died or like I never even had like a grandparent die So that was like really hard Um and especially because it weren't Planned he just had a heart attack and Died so for me like my dad was my Escape You know like when the sisters was Arguing in the house because someone had Stole their clothes or whatever it was Or I don't know I I was the young baby I Used to run away and go stay at my dad's So he was my Escape so I got to a point Where I had nowhere to escape to so I do Think a big part of which one might come Down to later a big part of me leaving At 17 and going to Leeds and going to UNI was me escaping a little bit and I Think that is been an interesting Trend Throughout I guess my career of me right I'm gonna run away and go prove

Everybody that I can do this kind of Thing Um but yeah like it hit me hard mostly Because he was like my rock and my Confidence boost and all that sort of Thing Um but I do think it was a big part that It was like a door opened and said go Run through it in a way oh Yeah I've I've been fortunate not to Have really lost anyone close to me yeah Yet but I know it like it's just a Matter of time I mean it happens to Everyone yeah um so I can't really Imagine having like having to go through That at the age of 15. I'll tell you a Quick story because it's really Interesting so I remember at school There was this kid called oh my God What's his name now Brandon I think it Was and Brandon had lost his mom and dad In a car accident right and he became The kid that lost his parents you know Like he had a label on him without Saying it he just was the kid that lost His parents and I remember I used to see Brandon in the hallway or in dinner hall Or something and just look at him and Feel sorry for him a little bit like [ __ ] that's that kid that lost his Parents and I remember the day my dad Died I went to school maybe about two Weeks later and I remember walking Through the hallway and he looked at me

This Brandon and I knew he was looking At me like the girl that lost her dad I Knew that all of a sudden now I had that Unwritten label on me in that way and It's like we connected we said hello Then I didn't really speak to him before But I think you don't expect parents to Go you don't ever like I never ever Imagined you just don't think about it Oh and I never did especially at 15. so When it happened it just turned my world Upside down and made me maybe quite Lonely I guess at the time because I was This baby that looked up you know I Loved my dad and that sort of thing and But then yeah it was it was a very tough Time Um I guess for a couple of years you Know it was going through I was going Through you know 15 I don't know really What goes on with hormones and things Like that at 15 but it was the peak time Of obviously getting my grades and you Know where am I going to go next and Making big decisions as a you know a Teenager I guess Um have you got any tips for someone Like if someone's listening to this and They've recently been through like Losing a parent or someone close to them Anything that you found helpful to help You get through it Um two things so um one of the things That I did when I was a kid which is I'm

Quite grateful for I didn't know this But Um when you're under the age of 16 you Actually can get free counseling Um my school recommended at the time so They got in touch with my mom and said By the way Um it's like a government thing Um young children who have lost parents Go for grieving you can get free Counseling and it's through the school So once a week they come in and sit with Your child for an hour and you know talk Through things and one of the things They talk through which is quite an Interesting concept it made me realize They basically Drew out Like a road of grief and they said this Road is like a long it's a long road It's basically it's throughout your Whole life you will grief from losing a Parent and what they said is at the Beginning of the road there's loads of Potholes and these potholes are really Deep to the point where you know when You drive a bottle it like stumbles you A little bit but then you keep going Well these potholes sometimes you drive Over it and you fall in it and you don't Come out for months and that's what my Counselor taught me like you are going To fall into these potholes and you Might be there for a week you might be There for two months six months whatever

It is but as you go on this I'll cross This road these potholes get shorter and Sure and they get less so it just Becomes easier they stop tripping you up As much and that's what grief is it's Not like you're moving on but it just Gets easier it just gets better and That's one thing that I tried to Visualize with people that have lost Parents or at least lost people close to Them because grief is one of those Things that it does get easier and at The time you feel like you Will's end And but that's the first thing I'd Advise and the second thing is this Might sound silly but write letters like Communicate it doesn't need to be Written letters but it could be Communicating in I don't know messages So like I still had my dad's mobile Number and I'd message him when I was a Kid sometimes and it never went through You know bounce back but it was kind of Like I was sharing my thoughts at the Time and I think yeah especially like Lads and boys that they don't Necessarily communicate that sort of Thing they don't show those emotions so I think find your own way of Communicating and but then also find Your own way of understanding grief so There'll remember two tips oh Peaceful yeah Um what do you think your dad would say

If you saw how you are now Um foreign He would just be so proud yeah so so but Don't get me emotional he will just be So proud and I think it's just because He knows how resilient I am yeah Um oh my God why am I crying what what The hell Um I never thought I would I don't even Know you this is amazing Um yeah he would just be so proud also That I kind of went against the odds you Know like counselor State kid big family Loads of kids no one went to UNI and I Made it and I did it and I proved Everyone wrong I say that though which Is weird because it's like who am I Proving I don't know who I'm proving Me myself I don't know but yeah he'll be He'll be very proud Um thank you for sharing all that I know I think it's really important like with A lot of people's I guess like Especially like you know people who are Like super successful and yeah podcasts And stuff you often just kind of hear That see the Highlight Reel of course You do yeah realizing that there's like Yeah grief and emotion behind it yeah And everything Um okay so you get through your gcses Yeah you get through a levels and you Decide to go to Leeds yes what did you Study

Um it was actually classed as New Media Communications basically media but it Was the digital version it was the first Year that the media so when you studied Media at Uni it was often thing like Filmmaking podcasting things like that You know journalism and stuff well it Was the first year when digital started To become a thing so I was very lucky Actually to have spotted it because it Was the only course in the whole country That did this and but it was New Media Digital channel so I studied social Media I did things like animation Motion Graphics learn how to use new technology Learn about the internet and Safety and Security I did a bit of web development So very kind of like a technical course Um which I loved because I kind of could Apply you know things that I'm excited About AI Innovation strategy that sort Of thing but then Um also be quite creative as well yeah So at that point you're studying the Subject and like what are you thinking About Um what you want to be when you grow up Still have no idea okay completely no Idea there was a point where I developed A website which was the worst website in The world but I remember thinking I'm Going to start a development agency and I'm going to build websites and make Loads of money and I think it's because

I met some kid who came into class one Day and he said that he makes websites And he Ian himself like 10 grand or Something I'm thinking oh let's make Some money that's what I want to do Um I ended up paying him like a 100 quid To do my project work and he did it and I got really good grade but yeah Um I was still unsure at that time Exactly what I wanted to do so again Figuring it out as I as I went I guess I Have this motto see where the wind blows Me And that's what I was doing at the time Okay so then three years at University Yeah how was that experience overall Um wild yeah Oh this is an interesting story So I started University and I moved into Halls as everybody does but one of the Biggest mistakes that I made is I Remember thinking I really want to live Somewhere nice and make nice friends and Have a nice apartment you know like be Someone I I'm not like I come from a Counselor state but I want to live in a Knife apartment in Leeds so there was a Certain uni Halls that was a bit more on The higher price Um and I'm gonna thinking that looks Nice I'll just get some jobs to be able To afford it but that looks like the Perfect place to go

So I applied to stay there and I got in You know to into the halls and I moved Into this um amazing halls and this Beautiful like nicest Apartments like I Stayed in for a uni Hall whereas some of Some of the people that I made friends With at Uni they were staying in some Really bad places you know and but one Thing I really made a mistake about is I Ended up being Like I guess grouped into halls with Some of the richest people in the Country oh okay so culturally there's a Massive Clash right I was the standout You know councilor State kid surrounded By people with Rich families who their Parents was paying for their halls and I Was there like working in bars trying to Figure out how to pay for it that was One of the biggest mistakes I made but Also if I reflect it I learn a lot I Learned about different people and I've Never been surrounded by people that you Know some of their parents were Multi-millionaires billionaires and I Was in these halls with these people Lived with them for a year and it was Very difficult because they had Different perceptions of money and you Know I was there working like hard to Kind of like fund University you know Didn't get a penny from parents or Anything like that Um whereas they was a little bit

Different so it was interesting kind of Time because I I guess I felt like I Needed to keep up with them and Therefore I just worked hard to be able To do that Um but I guess after that first year Ended I ended up moving with some of my Friends off my course yeah um but yeah That was an interesting decision I made A few months ago I interviewed a Psychology Professor who studies luck oh Wow and he's written books and papers And stuff where he boils dirt luck down To four things basically that lucky People do that unlucky people don't yes And one of those is striking up Conversations with people in trains and Coffee shops and that kind of thing yeah Because you just never know where it's Going to take you 100 yeah is that Something that that's sort of carried on In the rest of your life yeah all the Time yeah I I met someone today in an Uber um it was a taxi driver he was like Oh where are you going today and I said About work and I had a meeting with Amazon and all these sort of things and He said what do you do and he ended up Being a videographer and um we exchanged Names and added each other on LinkedIn And someone that I might be able to work With one day but those don't come about To Everyday People you just got to be Able to have the confidence to talk to

People and be open-minded and welcoming As well so I do think because of this Kind of like I don't know more than this About me maybe I am quite easy to talk To and so that also is a good part of How I get good opportunities is people Just feel okay to be able to chats Ministry or whatever yeah we always like This so is that something that you have To develop over time always like this Yeah my mum said when I was a kid she Was like you talk to everybody she was Like you would just make conversation With people in Tesco like as a like five Year old you know run around but I was The type of person that also didn't like To not be in the know she said you would Stay up late so save my mum had friends Around you know for tea and drinks and Stuff and my bedtime would say eight O'clock she says you would not go to bed You would sit you'd even sit outside the Door so they'd shut the living room door And I would sit listening because I just Wanted to hear what adults talked about She was like you were so curious Inquisitive confident but you loved Being around people so I do think Um that was maybe a big part of I guess Who I am today yeah let's say you had um A junior team member or something who's Like Um who admires like your ability to talk To everyone yeah

And and they're like Carrie how do you How do you do it how do you just strike Up a conversation with someone that you Just remember they've just met can you Think of any like I guess the strategies Or things that you find yourself doing That you can wow kind of share with this Person to be like oh that's a really Hard one you know when you just do it it Comes natural to you but I guess If I think how my mind thinks when I see Someone I usually see something that I Can identify with so usually I'll see I Don't know I saw someone a girl the other day on Train and she was on Um a new look website and she it looked Like she worked in marketing and she was Doing she was writing like notes down For marketing and I basically said oh um On the train I was like do you work at New look Um she says yeah yeah and I said oh do You know blah blah because I know Someone who works at New Look in the Marketing team so I guess what I try to Do is identify me and them together and See if I can strike a conversation all The time so I guess it's just spotting Something that I can either add value to Her day in some way Um so that's one of the things that I Can if I could see myself doing it all The time well in in that context it's

Very easy for you to just be on your Phone you're super busy you probably get Tons of emails and messages and stuff Like what is it that lock up yeah tutor Like yeah actually be like oh do you Work at New Look rather than just like Stuck on the phone I guess maybe I'm Quite like nosy like inquisitive like I Guess that is the thing about me like Um I do ask a lot of questions like I am That type of person Um I'm just curious I think Um Even down to kind of like the people in This room and like earlier on like in The lift and stuff like the first thing I looked at is like I want to know who They are what the name what do they do Um I think that's I guess it's just a Natural part I guess of me in a way yeah I mean it seems like that skill has Really served you well yeah I think so Reflection now yeah I've realized that So you're doing the six month unpaid Internship sort of thing with this with His Google chap yeah yeah well why are You still at Uni yeah how are we how are You how are you doing that like Um to be fair I think it was when Um it started to quiet down you know in The summer period it was like coming to The end and then it went somewhere so it Was during that period so I was meant I

Was able to manage it absolutely fine Um but I also was like oh no I need Money to pay for rent so I actually Ended up working in wetherspoons at the Same time With Google And and you said that you got obsessed With search yes that's a bit random like Yeah I was I was looking up your agency And it's all like search-based stuff and I've not come across to that adjective Before in terms of kind of marketing Agencies yeah because I mean I know Loads of agencies specialize in Performance Marketing yeah but none that Specialize in search yeah so like where Did the obsession with search come right It's a bit random yeah it is right Um oh God it's interesting actually I Think it was because one thing I learned Is Um When when with the Google 360 guy he Basically said if businesses do the Video like add video to their website um Of you know their 360 view of their Cafe Google then puts them up on listings When it comes to local search so if you Was to look for a I don't know say if You're looking for a certain Cafe in London their chances of getting higher Up on Google Um is bigger because they have this Video content so I was like what so you

Can actually influence what comes up on Google and I was like yeah and I was Like that for me is a money making way And I was just obsessed with it in that Way and so I remember there was a module That you didn't have to take at Uni but I decided to take it like an extra Module it was for SEO and SEO didn't Understand what it meant but it meant Search engine optimization and Essentially what they did is they years Ago they taught you how to actually get Websites to rank high on Google by doing They call it black hat stuff so black Hat is things you shouldn't really be Doing to manipulate Google and it was Things like write a load of keywords in White text on a white background so Google can see it and things like you're Talking about certain content when Actually users can't see it so I learn About all these different clever ways of Manipulating Google and then that's when I become really obsessed with arcade Well how is people actually doing it the Right way and that's when I started to Look into actual jobs of this I was like I'm going to teach myself I guess how Did you clock that this was oh I can Make money in doing this I think because It was new I think it was because it Excited me that nobody else was doing it I think that's probably something that Will come up in this conversation even

More is like I always spotted what Everybody else weren't doing Um so if somebody else was doing that Then I want to do something that nobody Else is doing and that's really what set Me out to be like unique Um so I think at that time not many People was talking about search engine Optimization but you could just see the Budgets was getting bigger and bigger so Like remember that content job that I Wrote um started to get where I wrote About horses that I realized that was an SEO job so I was writing content for Websites to get them higher rankings for Certain horse content and I was like Wait there's money in this and I was Like wait and actually people aren't That good at it like they're doing basic Stuff really so yeah I kind of started To teach myself in my bedroom watching YouTube videos you know reading books And Twitter and all that sort of thing And I just kind of got my put myself out There to learn as much as possible at This new thing that no one else was new About all right we're just going to take A quick break from the podcast to Introduce our sponsor which is huel now This is very exciting because I've Actually been a pain customer of huel Since 2017. I started eating Hill in my Fifth year of medical school and I've Been using heel regularly ever since

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End of University what they do is they Get um businesses local businesses to Come in and do career presentations and One of the businesses that came in was An agency called sticky eyes sounds Really weird it's a really weird name And but they're a marketing agency in Leeds and they do Um advertising and marketing and PR and Things like that and they was working With things like ghd like the hair brand And there was also had like MTV so I Remember them stood in front of our Class talking about what they did and SEO was one of it and I was like I want To work that that was like my goal I'm Gonna work there when I graduate and I Was only like three months off Graduating so I went on their website And I saw that there was a grad scheme And essentially there was going to be Hiring two people to join their business And there was a bit of a process around It so I think there was like free stage Application where you went into their Office for the day and you got to set a Certain task and you had to come up with An idea ball bar so I went in and I Remember being thinking go in and win it With personality go in and win it with Energy and positivity because I had good CV to be fair you know all the Experience and all the free work I was Doing like surely the Google 360 stuff

This is gonna set me in good stead Um so I went to the grad day to go and Like try and win that job and yeah I won It so I got the job and worked there I Was meant to be working there full time But I actually ended up getting made After three months I know so Um while I was there though um the good Thing is I learned so much I remember I Was put on Um ghd and they told me to go and PR Some new launch like product launches And I thought I do there's like you need To write press releases and they taught Me how to write press release and all That sort of thing and then they said You need to call up journalists and be You know build relationships and that Was the first time that I ever caught I Thought what do I do when I ring a Journalist I was petrified I remember The moment that I first rang a Journalist and it was um one of the First journalists that I rang was Someone at Vogue And that was that was the toughest yeah They literally hung up and was like no Go away I was like oh and there's like No you got to keep going and I was like Okay well who do I ring next and it was Like right so I learned how to kind of Resilience again of like getting told Now and keep going so um I ended up Calling um the sun one day about this

Product launch and luckily this girl Called Ellie answered the phone she's Like hi Emily I'm the beauty she was the Beauty editor at the time of the sun I Thought Hayley I thought basically I've Got this product about to be launched It's for ghd and it's the new it was When you know like copper gold was like A new trend and it was like they had the Copper gold hair straighteners so we're Just about to launch it I would love to Send you a pair Funny enough she went I'm a hairdresser In my spare time I went well that's Low-key again a bit of look Um and she said this weekend it was Um I think it might have been Glastonbury or Leeds first or one of Those basically and she said I am Actually um doing Ellie Golden's hair This weekend I will use if you can get Me in by tomorrow morning I'll use the Straighteners and I'll write a piece in The sun about it I've been thinking And I hung up I was like went to my boss I ran to her and I was like you're never Gonna guess what I'm just wearing jeans At the Sunday I should do that can you Move away move aside we need to we need To cover this now I remember thinking oh That's obviously because I've done some Good work but I remember feeling a bit Like oh they've taken that off me like That was a really good opportunity it

Landed in the sun it did really really Well so um and they sold out of ghds at The time as well so it was really really Nice PR and we ended up doing more more Press coverage and stuff so I guess that Was when I first started to learn what Is PR how to get brand mentions how to Get links back to websites and that's How we can improve SEO and stuff so yeah That was my early stages of learning how To talk about the question so let's say Someone's listening to this and they're Like I've just I want to launch my I Don't know product that I don't know squeezy handheld b-day for The toilet or something like that and They're like but I haven't got an Audience I don't have a YouTube channel I have a podcast like can I get a Placement in like the sun like is is That possible for normal people to do it Is Um I guess So the best way to describe it is you've Got to create a story so a lot of people Listening to me then will probably say Yeah but it's ghd that's easy to get in The sun you know people love jhd it's a Big brand already so I guess we work With a lot of style Brands as well and The biggest thing that I teach a lot of So we have a team of 50 odd PR's now and What I teach them is you just gotta Create a story that people will be

Interested in it might be something Funny reactive creative like I'm trying To come up with an idea around this b Day thing or whatever but you basically Ought to come up with something that People will find either useful engaging Funny or resourceful Um so it could be like a data-led piece Or something that positions you as an Expert but that's how you get PR and so Yeah I've worked with lots of like Brands everything from Finance which Might be sound boring try travel cars You know all that sort of thing and Mostly you just have to take the product The service and create a story out of it That people actually care about and that Might sound like okay well how do I Create a story and but I think it's Mostly around know what's relevant know What's relevant in the media what people Are talking about and try and make your Brand relevant to that Trend so it might Be hmm there was a massive Trend Recently around Facebook and are they listening to us You know like people's data security and Privacy and things like that and we had A technology client that basically Looked into Um data security and clouding so Essentially what we did is we did a Study to look at how much data does Facebook have on US versus Twitter this

Is Instagram versus Tick Tock and we Basically created this like online Report which we then pushed out to press To reveal which app actually knew the Most about us and we ranked them you Know across all these different apps Around the world and that's how we got Press coverage for our brand so it's an Idea of like okay well the the thing That was bigger at the time was our Facebook listening to us and we then Turned that into a campaign story Positioned our client as an expert and Able to get you know Mass press coverage As a result of it nice okay so it's not About this client has just released a New Cloud security data interest like no One gives a [ __ ] no way yes but if you Turn it into something a compelling Piece of content 100 and a lot of Traditional PR's might say Um you need to build relationships and That's how you're going to get the Press Coverage of your product but I'm like no People will not cover that they don't Care like even when like we work with Some of the sexiest Brands like fashion Brands and Beauty Brands and they'll Might do a big collection with the Kardashians or it might even be and you Know another Celebrity Face or anything Like that they still don't care about That how can you make it relevant to me Because what they need is traffic they

Need social shares no one really cares That you know Chloe Kardashian has done Another range with another fashion brand But what else can we create that is Going to get the traffic and the shares For the Daily Mail because we can create An angle on that so yeah it you've Really got to think about their metrics And what they care about and how you can Help them hit their kpis too that's Super interesting Um can you think of any other kind of Examples of sort of trying to sell Something boring and turning it into an Interesting story And um a new maternity range And clothing brand Yeah yeah oh yeah Um fashion brand um for women and they Was learned launching a new range for Maternity so um when people get pregnant And there's not much range out there in Terms of dresses and clothes and things To wear not much choice so misguided a Quite professional brand and they've Actually don't exist anymore but this Was like four years ago Um but what they did is they decided to Launch an actual maternity range that Looked nice for once Um and they said can you mark it can you Prior it and I was like well yeah but There's loads of maternity Brands out There there's loads of people that do

Maternity clothing so we need to come up With a story leave it with us So we then started to look at the media What are people talking about and one of The things I don't know do you watch Love Island I've seen bits of it okay I can't remember her name but one of the Love Island Um members she was a model on Asos okay And she was found so somebody watched The TV show and they basically found her On Asos in the maternity section and They was like wait she hasn't got kids And she had like a paternity bump and What they revealed is it's fake so People that wear these maternity they're Models that have these like maternity Shoes they wear fake bumps so it caused Uproar everyone was like oh my God That's not like realistically what a Woman's body looks like like the fake Bumps how can they realistically show You know what that dress looks like when Actually we've got bombs and cracks and All this sort of stuff in all different Places so the the consumer on Twitter And things like that was screaming out For realism so I was like I've got a Story I know exactly how to Market our Maternity range we went and actually got Real pregnant models we basically called Up a few models that was pregnant Heavily pregnant with big bumps and we Said we actually want to do a photo

Shoot with you and usually models like What like I've lost my gigs for a year Because I'm pregnant but actually you Want to take photos of me like yeah Because we want to show what real women Look like so we did this whole photo Shoot of maternity range with the Realistic actual real bumps and we Showed it with the stretch marks and Everything and it went all over the Press and it's like the first fashion Brand to do a realistic maternity range So that's how we added a story to Something that is I guess just a product Launch nice that's really cool yeah [Laughter] Wow So let's say I'm a normal person wanting To Market my B days and I figure out Some kind of some kind of story I bought one of Amazon the other day and I've just been sort of Shilling it to All my friends be like guys this is Um let's Okay cool so let's say I think Okay cool I've got a story angle for XYZ Can I just Click contact us on the and Email it like how does that work yeah so When you work in PR you get access to Loads of databases and so databases are Usually quite expensive to kind of get a Handle on but there are some free ones As well Um so even if you don't go on like

Typing on Google free journalist Databases loads of lows on there but Essentially what they do is they give Email addresses for editors across Different niches so if you're looking For a fashion writer fashion editor or Beauty or travel or Automotive Finance Whatever it is these databases will have Them all listed but what you have to Really do is do your research because Often what PR's go wrong with is they Just send it out to load of journalists Thinking they're going to pick it up but What you need to do is super targeted so Take the misguided maternity one for an Example everybody that was covering the Fact that the love Island person was Caught with a fake bump I contacted I Pulled a list of everyone that wrote About that story and I knew that if we Responded to that story with misguided Launch a real range with real bumps that They're more than likely going to cover It because they only wrote about it a Week ago so I basically made it super Relevant to the journalists so I'll pull The list because if you go on like the Daily mail or BBC or anything their name Is underneath like you know I'm the Author of this content so it's finding Those through databases if you can't Find them on databases guess it and then Guess their emails like first name dot Last name at the Sun or whatever

Literally yeah it's usually always first Name dot last name at the sun um so just guess it if it Doesn't work it'll bounce back if it Does win It's nice and anyone can do this anyone Else What's the point of a PR agency most People can't do it because of time yeah And they can't come up with the ideas And they haven't got the tools to be Able to and they they struggle to come Up with a good story that people care About I think a lot of um Brands Internally they obviously day-to-day Work on a brand all the time and they Love it they get to love the brand they Get to love their products and things Like that to a point where they're like Oh my God we need to launch this Depression it's like but no one cares About it but we do I'm like but they Don't so I think what they need is an External person to actually say how can We make this relevant how can we make This shareable clickable it's buyable Even so I think PR agencies not only Create stories around things but they Actually make it that people actually Want to buy these things as well Something I read on Twitter actually is Like someone said everyone is the same Every product is the same like mostly You know even down to like phones or

Laptops everyone sells laptops you know In terms of Brands but it's all the Marketing it's the pr angles that makes It different Um and that's why they use PR agencies Or it's just to create a different angle On it to create a different story Target A different consumer and so that's Mostly why Brands need agencies like That okay tons more questions on the Agency front but before we go there um I really like that thing you said around Like targeting yeah because I get like Dozens of emails a day from like clearly Copy freaking pasted yeah a dear Influencer we'd love to and I'm just Like why yeah and similarly when we put Out Um job descriptions for people applying To work with us you get the people that Like one click apply on LinkedIn and It's just like come on and then the People that actually take the time to Write an email which is super targeted Which is like 100 times more likely to Get through the door yeah and I don't Know who's telling people that like Spray and pray is a reasonable strategy But I just love the fact that even in Especially in the like the pr world it's Really about a targeted attack yeah it To be fair that still happens to this Day so I have my own YouTube channel and I just basically video behind the scenes

Of the agency that wins the fails and All that sort of thing Um and because I'm on YouTube and I'm Actually on a lot of databases as a an Editor content creator so often Um PR's send me press releases like oh I've got this new product launch and I'm Like what I'm 18 I'm kind of like some Of my competitors send me their agent Their release pieces and I'm like why Are you doing this because they're not Checking they're just like spraying and Praying so I think it still happens this Day and I think the best agencies are Really good at Super targeting knowing What people are talking about like Building those relationships with Journalists and that's the thing that a Lot of people just don't put the energy Into doing but I also think even down to Like you know job applications and Things like that all we do so I spoke to A journalist actually Um they on average get 600 emails a day Oh wow yeah and they cover by the way Around six stories a day yep it's a lot Because we're in a digital world they Need to be producing articles fast if You work out the average time that's About an hour an article say I've not Got a long time so you've got to stand Out in the inbox one which is the Hardest thing to do when the 600 emails You've got to capture their attention

Give them everything on a play without Not boring them in you know whatever so It's a very very tough market for a PR But you just got to be able to find a Way to do that so um yeah It's not easy yeah I think part of the Issue that I see is Um There's a lot of people talking in Videos and courses and stuff around like The easy way to make money and it's like Oh just copy paste this template stick It in a mail merge and send it out to 5000 people and someone will respond It's like no way It's because people like don't don't Want to do the hard work of actually Yeah taking the time and talking to Someone and finding their email and Figuring out why it's actually Compelling and how to add value I was Actually talking to my PR director the Other day and I so I've worked with him All of my career so when I worked it I Walked into another job straight out of Sticky eyes a company called branded Three so this is another company that I Had heard about and knew was quite good At what they did it was actually voted The best agency in Europe at what they Did and I ended up getting a job there I Was like yes got in straight away and I Think it's the whole Sun thing what I Did there that was like we want you so

We've got a job there Um I walked in and I ended up working With this guy called will Um and he was the pr director and LPR Manager at the time and essentially we Have worked together for about 10 years Um he's with me now at my company and we Spent 10 years figuring out the best way To do it 10 years it took us to actually Find out the best way to write a release The best way to Target press releases The best way to build a relationship and Efficient ways as well and now so Obviously I'm building my own business And I'm hiring people 24 7 to the point Where I have people joining the business And within two weeks they're delivering Like industry-leading results in two Weeks and these are like 21 year olds Like and people like how the hell are They like learning how to do that but I Think some of the team take it for Granted because what I have to what we Realized the other day is it took us 10 Years to give you that resource and Those information of how to do this and Be able to get those results in two Weeks because we didn't get those then Um so yeah I think it takes a lot of Time so you know when you say like People want quick win strategies it took Me years to figure out how to do it to The like we're a five star standard now In my opinion and I'm biased

Um but we're a five-star standard now But it took us a lot of years to get There So you do the the job at Sticky eyes for Three months and then you join got made Redundant yep because they lost a client Ah yeah so that's that's why I realized Uh I guess when I got married redundant I was like crying I was like what I was Doing really well and I thought I took It personally yeah but they'd actually Lost a client um and that's the thing I Learned about business is they lose Revenue they have to cut heads and I was Like okay so I learned not to take it Personal Um so I'd heard of another agency called Brand new three and I basically tweeted The director there I said I want a job There she won't come in and come chat to Me I went and spoke to her and the CEO And I got off for the job on the week so Uh yeah I forgot very lucky so that's Also an unusual approach like you didn't Go on the website and like try and apply It officially and all that stuff yeah You just a message on Twitter I think When I'm under pressure I do things out Of the ordinary so for me I just thought I was under pressure because at number One I had an apartment in Leeds and my Rent was 850 a month and I was only Earning 80 pound a month at the time I Think it branded sticky eyes so like my

Salary is really low but I had a rent to Pay for and so I was under pressure and I wanted a job fast so instead of just You know going through careers and doing You know the typical thing I thought you Know what I'm just going to Tweet you Because she did tweet out the job ad and I just said I want that job that's mine Can I chat to you and she'd obviously Saw in my bio I worked at the compare Agency so clearly she's going to want to Know what I've got to say Um so yeah I uh I did that on depression it worked Nice so you got the job and then you're There for I was there for six and a half Hours around seven years oh wow yeah Long time yeah how was that experience Amazing I learned so much I was very Loyal obviously saying that seven years Is very rare by the way in a marketing Agency typically people stay within Marketing agencies for about two years I Think it's normal two three years so the Fact I stayed there for seven years is Yeah it was a good ride got tracked Really well learned loads Um I started in the industry marketing Things like car insurance Um I worked on gambling so lab Brooks Was one of my accounts which was not the Sexiest I don't know anything about cars I don't know anything about gambling I Don't bet like it's not my thing but

Because I learned how to Market really Tough Brands I can Market anything In my opinion what are the principles Behind marketing stuff like if we we've Talked a little bit about kind of Creating the story around it yep what Else is there as part of marketing hmm Because I guess that some people like Who don't have that background marketing Can seem a bit but Marketing sales Equals scam equals this is just [ __ ] It's just hot air they're just trying to Pump up the value of a thing that Doesn't like there's a lot I think There's a lot of like misconceptions Around what marketing actually is and I've only recently started actually Diving into this for my business and Being like oh wow people read books About this these books are really good Yeah what's your strategy when it comes To marketing so quite a broad question Because Um but I guess my strategy the way that I think about it is Um generating brand demand I think Um you can pay as much as possible to Get people to see who you are and what You've got to say so a lot of people put You know do paid advertising and things Like that and you can pay as much money To generate customers and it does work But I think for me I'm more about how do I build a brand so I don't have to pay

For customers people come to me that's Really what I focus on Um there's a concept um called it's an Advertising concept and it's called The Purple Cow have you ever heard of it I've heard of it what is it so basically It's all around It yeah yeah I've not read the book so Basically the book Purple Cow Um concept is around standing out and Being different so essentially what he Basically said was when you're driving Along and you see a field of cows you Don't really go oh look a cow you don't Do that you see it every day it's the Same old stuff But if you drove along one day and Looked in that field and also there was A purple cow you gotta pull up and You're gonna go what the hell there's a Purple cow And that's the thing about advertising And brand we're being we're consuming Content load of content every single day Like you know even getting here today The amount of advertising that I see People don't realize it how many Advertising you see I think you see a Thousand in a day by the way so a Thousand adverts in a day and that could Be on billboards it could be on your Phone on Instagram so you are constantly Consuming content And the idea is that how do we make sure

We create content that actually people See and remember it and that's the Biggest thing so there's another and That's what the purple cow is it's like If you can build a brand But will that people actually remember And see it stands out in a line of 100 Pieces of content that's how you're Going to get customers so that's how People really invest in really stand out Marketing so I guess something like Compare the meerkat yeah is a purple cow The go compare a singer dude yeah it's a Bit of a person you remember it people I Talk about it it's like annoying but Like yeah but in a still in a memorable Way yes and those are the only two price Comparisons I don't know yeah because That's those two things yeah yeah and That's why you remember it but you can't Remember anything else you don't know Like or you know these are all like Comparisons oh yeah yeah I remember that One but it doesn't it doesn't have to be Like oh yeah I've seen an ad for that Somewhere but there was nothing about That that stood out yeah and take go Compare yeah so um go compare there go Compare their TV ad Um it was remembered but remembered Negatively and what I mean by that is It's annoying it's a little bit Irritating but it makes you remember it

So there's another fact Um so 20 million is spend no I like 20 Billion is spent every single year on Advertising 89 of that is never remembered at all I Think it's four percent is remembered Positively and seven percent or Something is remembered negatively But as long as it's remembered So with 89 if you take I don't know the Mass I'm not very good at off the top of My head but 89 of 20 billion is a lot of Money that is being wasted every single Year on Advertising by advertising and Marketing that's just never remembered At all and I think it's because 89 of People are stupid they don't know how to Market people so it's a lot of money to Be wasted and I guess when I started to Build my own agency out I needed to go And find those people that weren't Stupid if 89 of people were stupid in Marketing because they didn't know how To create an advert that get remembered There's a very very small pool of people That knew how to do that so yeah I I Guess when I decided to start me a Marketing agency that's what I focus on How do I create how do I get those People to create advertising that's Remembered this purple cow concept So how are you doing that for something Like Ladbrokes like what though or like Car insurance and stuff like are you

Trying to because something like the go Compare man yeah is a bit of a gimmick But like yes in a way that works but no One else has really succeeded with by Copying that kind of thing similarly no One else is trying to do the meerkat Things they're like how how do you even Begin to make Ladbrokes interesting or Yeah some random character it's Interesting Ladbrokes is a difficult one Mostly because I guess the best brand That can compare it to is like Paddy Power it's like Paddy Power they do Really well with that sort of thing I Guess they're kind of like they go Compare of the world you know in terms Of they do advertising stunts that are Comical that people share but it's Mostly around for Ladbrokes consistency So there's a thing called a mental Availability and there's physical Availability so I guess when you walk Down the street in London and you see a Ladbrokes store that's physical Availability they're available for Everywhere yeah yeah they're everywhere But then when it comes to mental Availability it's like how do we make Sure that if I say gambling you think That Brooks yeah or if I say car Insurance you think go compare so mental Availability is the thing that marked is Really a tapping into and so with lab Rugs it's mostly around consistency you

Need to make sure that whenever people Are looking at sports content whether It's you know horse riding football Rugby whatever it is Ladbrokes appear Whether it's tick tock content YouTube YouTube ads and PR you know where maybe You're researching of how to place a bet Because you've never placed a bet before You know touching users at all different Types of the journey so yeah it's all Around how do you appear when people are Looking to make a bet and people are not Just you know making a bet all the time They might be just scrolling through Sport content so it's all around Consistency of appearing yeah that makes Sense So that's why you would see like Ladbrokes and Betfair and Bet365 ads on The football billboardy type things Around the pitch yeah because they just Want to be like associate that thing With sports exactly it like if I think Of Razer Brands I think of Gillette yeah I know that Wilkinson Sword exists but Like I'm never gonna buy it like it's Just like obviously Gillette is like the Good one even though and then you get Ads like uh Dollar Shave Club yeah that Would be like hey just one blade that's All you need they would then use that to Counter the huge advantage that Gillette Have yeah here's something for you yeah I saw her actually the day

Brand is very very interesting so a lot Of people think brand is that thing you Invest in that is a bit fluffy it's hard To track and it's hard to measure However this is why brand is really Important so say if you walked into Starbucks and there is um two sets of People in Starbucks sat you know working At their at their laptops there's Somebody on like a Windows laptop and There's somebody on a Mac If you ask someone what do you think He's working on on the Mac more than Likely say oh he's create a movie or He's created a you know a film or a Piece of music or something like that What do you think he's working on on the On the on the screen yeah especially It's fine boring here that's why brand Is important because what they do is Associate that person with a job for an Example and straight away you it's an Identity so you buy the identity So when You buy a Macbook it's because you want To be seen as a creative so you're you Know same with why you buy Gucci or Chanel or whatever you want to be Associated with those words then that's Why Brian is really important this Episode is very kindly brought to you by Wework now this is particularly exciting For me because I have been a full paying Customer of wework for the last two Years now I discovered it during you

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Episode so you're working at this Agency For seven years you're learning a lot of Stuff along the way yes trying to make These kind of somewhat boring clients or Accounts and fun in a nice way yeah okay So then what happens next how do you Decide that you want to do your own Thing so Um a couple of things happened so I was Progressing quite fast I was one of the Top performers in the team really really Loved it like really really happy Um but what I ended up starting to do is Getting some I I actually um ran a Campaign once that went viral Um and it kind of put my name on on the Radar across the marketing industry so Much that I had money Supermarket One Day ring up the agency to say they Wanted to work with us the agency that Worked at and they want the ginger hair Girl on the account so it kind of made Me famous a little bit but what that Ended up resulting in is I had a lot of Freelance offers so people was like oh Do you want to do some work on the side And I'm like yeah how does it work on The side so I started to do some work on The sides for a couple of Brands and There was nothing kind of too crazy just Like you know bits and Bobs here and There but I ended up starting to earn More money doing that than freelance so You remember will who I mentioned

Um he was ended up becoming one of my Best friends and I basically said to Will hey I'm getting that much freelance Work two and a half it with me you get Half I got half and we'll work on this Together and earn some side money and it Paid for things like holidays a nice Handbags you know it was just kind of Like a a side hustle I guess Um but what I realized is I was very Very good at what I did and I was Becoming a lot more in demand Um but what I also saw at the time so The agency that was currently at branded Three they actually sold so they sold to A bigger company called edit we got Merged in and then some of the Competitor agencies in the industry also Got sold and merged in and essentially There was not really a leader anymore There was not really anybody that led The market because Brandy three was the Most famous but they'd sold and people Started to leave so I saw a massive Gap In the market and that's when I started To think Maybe I could start filling that Um I didn't know where to start with That yet though it was just a I spotted The opportunity I don't know where to go Next Funny enough Um I was in work one day and will said To me Carrie you know I was still the

Same kid you know like I was at school Like chatting and giggling or something He said you should get on TV you should Apply for something like big brother or The Apprentice so one night I went home And I had a few glasses of wine with my Friends and basically I applied for The Apprentice Um and I didn't think anything of it I Actually forgot about it I went to bed And then the next morning I woke up to An email from The Apprentice saying Thank you for your application we'd Actually like you to to push you through Um to the first round you need to come To London on Monday and I was like whoa I was like what happens what do I do What do I wear I don't go shopping I Said what do I need and they said you Need to create a business plan like Rapid so I had like two days to create a Business plan so obviously I already Already kind of knew what I did I was Like use what I'm good at Second thing is I spotted a gap in the Market let's expand on that what is the Opportunity for me Um and then I started to think about Products and that price and you know What I've learned I guess if I'm Building you know seven years of my Career so I started putting a business Plan together and one of the directors At the agency I worked at Brandon three

He was very kind of like good friends With me and he's very supportive of me Like often like giving me good like life Advice and career advice so I ended up Messaging him saying I've got a bit of a Secret I've applied for the apprentice And I've got through to the first round It's nothing serious yet because by the Way 40 000 people applied that year so It's a lot of people so I had no idea Where it was going to go so I just said Can you help me put this business plan Together so he said yeah sure and he Sent me a few notes and he said right What have you done so far and I sent it Over and we built it out basically I went down to the interview and I'll Not go through everything because it's It's very very long story because it was Multiple rounds and it was very in-depth And tiring and but it was very very Interesting but there was one point Where so I remember going down to the Audition And we there was lines and lines of Thousands of people and what they did is They put you into categories of 20 People they put you in a room they lined You up and they basically said one Person out of u20 is going through that Door and they're 19 others are going Through that door and it's up to you Guys who goes through it was brutal Extremely brutal so I remember they put

Me in this group of 20 people and they Put you in a room and you spent about Half an hour in the room before you went Into another room to actually do like Whatever was in that room no one knew What was in that room so I was listening To conversations and people saying oh I Had a really business and I was like [ __ ] I don't want a business like and Someone was like oh yeah I'm already Making millions and I'm like oh like I Didn't do any of this year I didn't make Millions yet I've just got an idea So we gotta put into this room and they Lined us up all 20 of us and on the Floor we all had a number but there was All mismatch so it might be like one 11 13 21 you know that sort of thing Um and I had number nine And they basically said right number Three can you step forward you've got Um I think it was 15 seconds To say why you should go through that Door So people like uh well I saved a live And I've done this and I've made money And there's the right step back Whoa this is bro you didn't have long at All to prove why you should go for that Door that number 11. so number 11 step Forward and then number 19 and then I Remember I was like maybe like the fifth Person that they said and they said Right number six

No one step forward I was like looking I Was like where's number six And I looked and I had number six but Because I I actually have number four I Had number nine because it was upside Down it looked like a nine so straight Away people started laughing and I was Like oh no and I went bright red because I was embarrassed then because I was Like Oh I thought I was number nine and Then anyway so I was like this is where I started to get under pressure and I Know I work well in pressure And I stood forward I can't even Remember what I said but I nailed it and Then Okay step back I think I kind of I don't Know I made myself into a I thought to Myself if I'm in that room I need to Stand out personality wise than anything Else my business idea is good enough and I'll figure that out later on but the Thing I need to do is stand out and I Went in there and kind of really showed My personality I didn't even blag I Didn't need to sit and talk about my Success I just went in and went in with My personality and a long story short I Went for all of the 20 people and they Said right number six can you step Forward and I stepped forward they went You're going through that door everyone Else goes home and what happens is I Went through the door and you're in a

Lift and you go up the lift and you hit The seven floors in this another seven Like second round third round and there Was seven oh it was pretty well so I got Through to the final round got invited Back we did TV you know the intro to Camera like hi I'm Carrie dude I did all Of that and then met the financial team Went through my business plan and they Actually told me to go get private Investment so this was like wow so I was Still at Brandy three and I didn't tell Anybody I only told the director and he Kept it quiet he was like good friend so He kept it like quiet as a secret So I went back and I said I haven't got On the show but they've told me to go Get private investment and somebody who Had followed the process of The Apprentice basically offered me um some Money not massive money and but enough Money to go and start so I basically Said that's it that's the smart that's My door open step through it and I did And I went from there sick yeah that's So cool Um okay so um You present the business plan to these Apprentice guys they say you should get Private investment yes why do you need Investment why not bootstrap and just go Profitable from day one kind of yeah I Could have done Um I guess the investment what it gave

Me is the confidence Um to go and figure it out because if it Didn't work no matter like I don't need To like yeah they owned a certain Percentage of the company a small Percentage but I didn't need to pay that Back Um in that way and so I guess it was More of like okay if I could get a bit Of a buffer a bit of a pillow to land on If things don't go okay then that's Absolutely fine so it gave me the Confidence that I had a bit of money in The bank don't look back and I think a Lot of business owners when they Launched they're constantly looking back At their bank account can I afford this Kind of I didn't look once something fun Fact I shouldn't really admit but I Didn't look at the bank account once for The first year I didn't even know my Login Yeah Um but that was a good thing because I Didn't look at whether I could afford it Or not which is crazy like crazy Statement to make But what I did is I had my face forward And I was like constant like I can do Anything I can achieve it you know I Don't need anything I've got money Behind me I'll be fine and it weren't a Big amount of money by the way to a Point where

Um we ended up giving it back and saying I don't need it so we did that about Three months in oh okay yeah Um so yeah we ended up being profitable From day one but what it gave me is Confidence and I do think that is a very Hard thing to get when you're starting a Business is that absolute confidence not To look back What did your um so when you were Working at the at the agencies what sort Of salaries were you getting and how did That change over time over the seven Years my salaries yeah um I guess I Started you know minimum 16 Grand Something like that a year um and I went I can't remember what highest I went I Remember at 35 Grand okay so that's the Maximum I earned at that time Um and that was when your freelancing Company you're like oh hang on like I'm Making one 3K a month for freelance yeah So that's cool yeah literally Um so yeah I was earning more money then And I thought you know what I can go and Start my own business and probably earn Money a lot faster yeah so I guess it Was a it was a way for me to be My Own Boss Um I was I was also quite not for sure I Won't say frustrated but I was like There's a lot of things that I would Have changed in that business at the Time at Brandon three like I was like oh

What about this you know and you get to Know a lot and you're like well I would If I don't you you know if I was the CEO Running this company or the director or Whatever I'd be doing this I'd be doing That so often I was I had ideas to Improve the business that didn't you Know I was a nobody really so I guess I Thought well if I go and start my own Agency in own business I can just roll It out and no one tells me no so yeah I Was I was a bit like that What was the business plan like at the Time what was the I wanted to start a search agency which Both drove demand for Brands but also Captured it off the back of it so I'll Tell you a story of how I come up with That concept so it was 2000 I think it Was 2018 or 2019 it was the year of the John Lewis Christmas ad where Elton John Featured in it essentially Um I was tracking the John Lewis Christmas ad I didn't work on the ad but I was tracking it because I wanted to Know how people behaved after they saw The Christmas ad because I was like I Was obsessed with it how do people Behave when it comes to search on social Behaving buying all that sort of thing So essentially Elton John on the TV ad I Think they spent about 10 mil what year On the ad and Elton John was playing the Piano he was a little kid and he you

Know turned into the artist he was with Thousands of fans screaming in the Audience And one of the things John Lewis didn't Realize which I was tracking is searches Straight after that advert got released For pianos went up from 250 000 a month To 500 000 a month they doubled it Actually went a little bit higher it's About 181 increase So John Lewis was spending all this Money on a TV ad to try make sales of John Lewis products but what they was Actually doing is driving demand for Pianos that's why I I typed in piano I Searched piano as well then I was like Damn I wouldn't get better at the piano So I typed in pianos in Google to see if John Lewis come up because that would be Clever you know it's been doing the TV Ad generating demand for pianos and then Selling them at the back end John Lewis Were nowhere to be seen so people was Generated these brand was generated in Search demand and not even captured on The other side so I just knew there's a Massive Gap where actually someone an Agency could work in the brand PR Advertising whatever generating demand For products but we could also do SEO And content to capture that demand as Well so essentially that was the Business plan I'm going to create an Agency which took so there's two sides

Of advertising really there's creative Advertising traditional advertising and Then there's digital performance and They don't really sit close together They're quite separate and at the time Four years years ago I was like wait What if I put those two together what if I hired 10 people from advertising 10 People from search and digital and put Them into a business I wonder what Happens and so I did and it made magic How many people did you need to get it Off the ground Um there was two of us okay so a fun Story Um you know the director who I got to Write the business plan I texted him and Said do you want to come with me he's Like what he um he actually just found Out his wife was pregnant Massive risk for him Um and he I I need the money this guy Was a director he's on six figure salary Already and I wouldn't so I was like Well you know I I was a lot more free And risk you know risk real and all that Sort of thing whereas he had a lot to Lose so at first he turned me down and Declined it um and then two weeks later He actually called me back up and said That offered does it still stand Let's Do It Um there was a few reasons why I decided To change my mind I think it was like

Changing the market you know probably a Few late night conversations with Himself like motivating can he do it can He not Um so yeah he decided to join Um and we launched the business within Two weeks Um of starting basically creating the Business plan and then launched it to The market basically how did you launch It Um at the time and we did a big post on Social media that so obviously he was a Director at the agency and I was just You know a normal creative person and The fact that we had joined together After Um they merged and sold it was a bit of Like a well who's what's next it was Like somebody needed some new news to The market if that makes sense there was Not a leader anymore so somebody needed To just dropped it in the way so we Basically did like a social media Strategy where we did this big Announcement on social media that me and Him had joined forces to create an Agency that no one's actually done Before brought advertising together and Searched together Um another thing we did it was only it Was actually on the day so this is very Very ballsy so the agency that we worked At brander 3 they owned an event called

Search leads and it was basically like a Conference so every year they have People stood on stage teaching people How to do SEO and content so that year Was Um I think myself and my co-founder was Talking on stage that day well when they Heared that we was leaving to start our Own agency we thought they would take us Off the lineup because obviously there Was like wait this is kind of a Competitor you know we can't have them Speaking on at our conference but the CEO was like you know they're only a Small agency two of you Um so I think it's fine we'll still have Them talk but we saw that as an Opportunity so Stephen was the my Co-founder he was the first person to Open the conference and usually we Opened the conference with her hi Welcome to search leads you know this is Brenda 3's conference blah blah we Opened it with so my business called Riser seven and he opened it with a rise At seven logo hmm and that's yeah very Ballsy I was not ready for that that was not my Idea Um but it was the best thing we did it Was very ballsy or probably lost a few Friends out of that through the last job And I remember him saying that he was Going to do that and I was like oh

Really I thought oh I'm nervous I was Petrified I remember I was like in the Audience because I knew I had to talk Later on in the day and I was like Really you're gonna do that he was like You know Purple Cow you're gonna have to Stand that out you gotta take risks Sometimes and so yeah he stood on that Stage and he introduced Ryan's at seven And it was a very very ballsy move and But what that meant was we got 4 000 People followers overnight on Twitter Because people was in the audience this Conference bear in mind was a few Thousand people big and people said oh My god really ballsy move and what it Showed is we were ready to disrupt and That's what the market needed at the Time so I think we had to do that we had To do something big nice okay that's Cool so you launched this thing within Within two weeks of making the business Plan yes and like presumably you start Getting clients from day one yeah we got A couple of clients and these are very Small clients that probably no one's Ever heard of so he was working with Like a small safety training company and And like an exam paper company that did Like exam training and things like that So it was very small Um not really enough to cover both of Our salaries he had to take a massive Pay cut I actually got pay rise which is

Funny because obviously I was only on 35 Grand so I got a little bit of a rise And because I was paying myself you know A bit more but it only just covered our Salaries Um but then we had a bit of an Opportunity so essentially we I got in Following the announcement I got invited To speak at another conference and Because they was interested in how how Do we bring SEO and you know brand and Advertising together in those ways in PR So I got invited to speak on stage and Because of all the noise about us on Social media which literally was organic Because we did a bit of balls in Marketing Um thousands of people turned up Literally somebody took a picture like Carrie have you seen like the room You're about to talk in house like Backstage there was like there's people Queuing out the door sitting on the Floor I was like oh my God and I was Like well I best go in there and nail This then and usually it is people Marketers it's not really my audience That they're not going to buy from us They're there to learn so I didn't Really think about the opportunities That could come out of that well I stood On stage did a really good talk for About 40 minutes Um and I got very lucky again because in

That audience was the head of digital a Misguided And that's the first client real big Client the brand first brand we won so What happened was I did I did the Presentation and I got I come off stage To an email in my inbox and it was the Head of digital misguided and he said hi I've just heard you talk and I thought He's brilliant I haven't seen a tour Like that for a long time I haven't Really seen anyone think about it in the Way that you guys are thinking about it Can you come to our office on Monday and We want you to pitch for us so we've Actually already chosen agency to do Global Marketing for misguided but you Guys seem a bit of a wow card I was like Whoa I misguided I've never done fashion You know my most of my career I did car Insurance and gambling and things like That like but I was like if I can gamble If I can Market gambling I can Market Anything so Um what I did is I called up Um will who worked at Brandon three and A couple of other friends and I said I Need you to come to a meeting with me on Monday and pretend to be my staff And they was like okay I'm in and I said I need to look bigger than I am because Right now I'm only two people me and my Co-founder but I need to look like I've Got staff that could be able to take on

A client like this so we went to the Pitch and admittedly I was very Transparent and said these people don't Work for me but I said um but if you if We win this account I'll hire them Tomorrow and we won it we won the global Account there and then on the spot and That changed everything for us so we Actually got featured in like um Prolific North which is like a marketing Publication that you know rise at seven Of just one misguided like a two-person Agency how the hell have they done that And within 24 hours we got we got a call From pretty little thing and the boohoo Group the full group and said [ __ ] like Get rid of misguided and we'll offer you Dubbing them out of money we had PlayStation and all these Brands get in Touch with us literally within weeks Um but we actually declined the boohoo Offer Um because we're loyal you know to Misguided it was our food we didn't want To let them down you know blah blah so We stayed working with them for a year And then we decided to go for PLT after A year but Um yeah from that moment we had maybe 65 Brands get in touch with us everything From Halfords Odeon Cinemas it just flew it was the Fastest Pace like growth that I've ever Seen so we went from two people we hired

Like seven then we went to 25 and then We got to 100 literally within like Seven months or so it was crazy and that Was during pandemic or pandemic so we Obviously June 2019 is when we launched So when pandemic hit went like January March of twenty yeah I remember hearing Noise about in January thinking it was a You know flu or something and then March Is when it got serious so we had about Six months I guess of normality normal You know running a business of normal Life and then I remember when the Pandemic hit I remember calling my mum Because we was going we was doing really Well Um and I remember calling my mum saying Mum I think I'm going to lose effort or Not overnight and she was like it's okay And I was like do I take my because I Was hiring at the time because I just Won all this work loads of clients I was Like do I take the job ads down not Higher like and I remember my business Part was like no we're not taking it Down we look forward we don't look back We never have done keep going and we Just grew we just grew rapidly during The pandemic and I think when when the Pandemic hit I think we had about 17 Staff and we went from that to 70. Literally within a few months What was it that helped you win that Initial misguided pitch

And how does that work when they say Pitch for us are you trying to like put On a slideshow or something and be like Hey this is why you should hire us yeah Okay um so typically what happens is Um they invite agencies in so maybe say Five they'll invite five agencies in and You have to show why why you but it's Less about you but more about what ideas You have for them so you have to give Away a lot for free it might be ideas Strategies you have to do a bit of Analysis into what are they doing right What are they doing wrong so we Basically put a bit of a deck together Of if we was running misguided marketing Strategy this is what we would do and it Basically they was like yeah you've hit The nail on the head so often we have to Come up with a PR idea social ideas and Strategies of how we can convert Customers better than they are currently And things like that so usually you have An hour to pitch Um I think we went in for about an hour An hour and a half and then we walked Away and we got an email saying we won It okay changing gear slightly um so We've we've got 70 people in the team so Far at the moment Let's say uh as a bit of a thought Experiment You were allowed to clone like three of Them oh a million times over and you're

Like like if you think of the people That I like I would clone you in a Heartbeat add to my business what are The what are the characteristics of Those like clonable top performers oh Um And I guess I'm asking for someone Listening to this is like you know if They're in a job and they want to kind Of stand out or drawing a new job or Anything like that like what are the Things that someone like you would be Looking for as a business owner tenacity Tenacity is that the word where you push Through I think there's not enough People in businesses that just keep Pushing like even if you get a pushback No you can't do that or you know it's Going to take time go no we'll figure Out another way and I think those are The people in my business that I go yes I'm so glad I've got you because I think People who don't take no for an answer Or don't take pushbacks for an answer Are the ones that succeed 100 so I think Tenacity Um the second thing that I would do is Clone anybody that is super curious so One of the things I do I test people in Job interviews and I go have you got any Questions and if they go no I don't Think I have They don't get the job Anybody that wants to be successful or

Is you know going to be good at their Job are curious they're going to have a Million questions and I want a million Questions I want them to ask me Carrie What do you do day to day or how much Money do you make or you know um what Are the problems in the business or What's the first thing you would like me To do or whatever it is people who ask Questions they're the ones that succeed The most and they're the ones that do Well in things like pitches if they're Asking their clients questions all the Time tell me about this tell me about That how do I know about this like like How do I learn as much as possible about You and your company they're the ones That succeed so I think those are the Two things that I mainly focus on is Tenacity and curiosity Um and then lastly I think it's just Enthusiasm I think people that are just Every day positive about their job and I Think obviously we're not all positive You know I go through days of negativity And feeling no I don't want to really go To work today whatever it is but I think If you have a positive outlook mostly on Life I think you can change the Perception of most most things basically Can you think of many people that you Have that have those category those Characteristics but you would still say Are underperforming like is there a

Because we've we've talked about kind of Like personality traits tenacity Curiosity and enthusiasm yeah is there Like a kind of tangible performance Element as well that's Decor related From those things or do you find that it Kind of tends to go together Tends to go together I think there's a Couple of things that I noticed Repeatedly in those people that they Need to improve on usually those people Aren't very good at Um Delegating work they're like protective Over I can do this I can do that you Know they they force through things and I guess they're not very good at Delegating work down and working as a Team and things like that but overall They're usually the high performers I Call them the a players everyone has Like businesses have a plays and B Players and I'll not list who they are Today or anything like that I have many A players and one of the things that I Always say is if you a good business is Based off how many a players they're Having a business so if you have 30 People in your company and Um 15 of them are a players you've got Very good company I think people usually have what two Three a players Um and it's really hard to get them by

The way Um but yeah I I try to aim as many as Possible And can you tell in an interview that Someone's going to be an a player or is It like within a couple of months of Seeing them like when when do you find Out usually I can tell in an interview And it's usually those three traits I Just mentioned and I usually ask them When was the last time you pushed Through something to that show tenacity Like you didn't take note you didn't Give up Um have you got any questions curiosity Um and then enthusiasm I just asked them Tell me something that you've done Recently and just see how enthusiastic They tell and you go you just know that They are going to be your a players and You find that that prediction holds true When when you see them in real life yes It does the only thing is a players Don't usually stick around because they Become entrepreneurs they usually go and Start their own businesses and that's What happened with me I had a lot of People leave and go start businesses Which I'm very proud of I'm like wow Like I hired 100 overall I've hired 140 People in last three years and so many Of them have gone to start their own Businesses and I'm proud of that because I remember thinking like I want my

People to work here and go and work for Netflix or Disney or you know amazing Brands or go start their own businesses And I'll be very very proud and that's My success metric if I can go and create That so yeah the fat people have gone And started their own businesses is a Good thing but it did mean that I had to Constantly replace people because they They come they learn and then they move On and go start their own thing and so Yeah a play is a very very valuable but They're very hard to keep Um we were talking before around Um kind of downsizing the business yes How was that for you when you had to let People go really hard Um I build this business I'll run this Business with my heart Um I was often quite jealous of my Co-founder Um because I felt he ran the business Through money in commercial he looked at The business with numbers above people's Heads and he admitted that and I think I Used to think that was a superpower Whereas I ran the business through Relationships in my heart and I love People Um and I found it really hard to let People go or say sorry there's not a job Anymore whatever it is Um I remember the first person I ever

Let go and I cried and I think God I'm Almost like a mess right now and I was Like sorry you know we're gonna have to Let you go and they probably hate me now But I was like it was very difficult for Me Um I felt like I was letting people down Yep Um so yeah it was difficult but I think Now it's very similar to my early Learnings when I got made with London It's just business and I've learned to Try teach them it's not personal you're Not bad at your job you're not you know And I often try recommend people and go Right I can't keep you but I've got you An interview tomorrow morning at you Know 9 A.M get ready you'll get job and I'm really I'm really grateful and proud That there's a lot of instances where I've got people in jobs straight well I Have mostly people work at right 7 we're A really good agency so a lot of people Get jobs real fast and but yeah it was Not an easy thing for me to go through Again for for the benefit of people Listening so the people that you've had To let go not because of redundancy but Because of performance yeah what have Been some of the characteristics of Those sorts of people like things that People should not do when they're in Their next job or in their current job Um people haven't when they haven't

Performed well they haven't spoken up And being honest I think if these if They said I'm really struggling with This can you teach me how to do it or Better or whatever I've missed you know How to do that and sometimes it is not Just it's not their fault it could be Our fault it's like oh we didn't train Them on that I thought we had you know So um I think speaking up and being Honest and I think a lot of people leave It too late and they're being let go and They're like oh I wish I stepped you Know said something and I wish you said Something too and if they were Struggling with certain roles so I think Yeah don't be afraid to step up and Share your weakness and what you're not Good at Um Another thing I would say is failing to Keep trying I think when you do get a Push back maybe a campaign hasn't worked Or you know you haven't got the results That you want it's quite easy that People give up and I think yeah that's Often like a quite a bad trait where You're like you're gonna get a lot of Pushbacks in business you're gonna get You're gonna run campaigns that aren't Gonna work but you just gotta keep Trying and learn from those failures so Make sure that you do a review of right This didn't work out but this is what I

Learned and I'm going to apply to my Next kind of you know campaign whatever It is so yeah I think they're the two Common most common reasons I guess yeah Yeah I think I can really relate to the The first one you said around like well Where people want to almost feel as if They're covering up yes things because They feel like oh I don't want to stick My head up as being the underperformer Yeah and they probably probably don't Realize that like you're probably Thinking already as a business owner and Then if only they spoke up you would Know okay cool there's an explanation we Can solve this blah blah blah blah yeah Rather than steering on it for two Months and then being like all right This person has to go 100 Yeah we've had a we put out like a q a Thing um for the podcast a little while Ago a question that often came up was Um Advice for women specifically in in the Workplace like do you see any patterns Of like you know to like you know what Women are like versus what men are like And what yeah both parties I guess can Do differently or quite better yes this Is quite I don't know whether people are Going to like hearing this or Controversial so Um let's talk about the pay Gap Um a lot of people say women are paid

Less than men I actually observe how people behave or Women behave versus men behave and men Are more likely to ask for a pay rise Because they're more confident to ask For more money women naturally have a Maternal Instinct so they're often open To doing things for free because it's a Maternal Instinct I'll look after you I'll do that don't worry about it Without asking for more pay men a lot of Men not like generic but a lot of men Would not do that for free so they're More likely to go yeah I'll do that but You can pay me more money to do it Whereas women are less likely to go yeah I'll do that don't worry about it so I Do think there are certain traits in men Or women that men mean that men do get More money than women so I guess one Thing that I like to do is tell women About that If you can make them aware of it by the Way You know that guy over there he wouldn't Have done that for free he would have Said you can pay me another 50 Quid or Whatever if I can let women know that Then like oh I didn't realize someone Else would ask for money for that like I'm happy to do it for free and I'm like No no so you've got to set those Examples so you do see traits in Different kind of genders and obviously

I'm a woman myself and I can see you Know I do know it exists I've seen the Data of you know gender pay gaps and Things like that but I do see also the Traits that I see in women and men and How men are more confident to go wait You want more from me yeah you can pay Me more money Um is there anything else that comes to Mind around women versus men in this in Any of these kind of workplace you Regards yeah so this is something a Little bit different this is more around Like leadership so I have a coach Um and such a female coach and she Basically coaches me about how to be a Good leader good manager and all that Sort of thing and the wheels chatting One night and that's she's got Nicole And I said Nicole um How many how many times you've done this How many people do you coach you said Carry out I've coached like over 100 People I says what do they vary should CEOs business owners billionaires Multi-millionaires that sort of thing She says like that's typically what I go For so what's the gender split between 50 50 to be fair I don't just look after Women I look after men as well and what Typically do you see in women versus men And she said this thing she said women Are often Struggle with their confidence in

Feeling like they Deserve a place at the table Imposter syndrome they don't feel good Enough they're all always trying to Prove themselves she says that is what Women leaders struggle with men they Really struggle building relationships With their business with their people With their propositions they don't Really you know have a a a heartly Relationship with what they do and what They sell every day and they see it was A commercial kind of transaction it says That's usually what people come to me For when it comes to coaching and I Found that really interesting because I Saw myself in that you know the Imposter Syndrome not feeling good enough proving Myself all that sort of thing but I also Saw my business partner in that because My business partner and he's actually Left the company now and I went for a Management buyout in November and but One of the things he really struggled With is building a relationship with the Business He just saw it as a commercial you know Transaction that's what he saw it as and Sometimes I envy that because I think if I didn't have that you know relationship With the business like I do like it's Driven with my heart I won't get so Upset when someone leaves or whatever or Go for a bad day

Um so yeah that's something that I've Seen two different genders in that way For leadership So you've you've gone from Kind of growing up on a council estate To having a you know uh being the owner Of a seven million business which seems To be a pound which seems to be Continuing to grow yeah how is your Relationship with money changed over Time Um I still don't pay myself enough and what I'll say about like I say I'm on a good Salary I ain't good money I like go on Nice holidays like I've been on holiday I've got time like I do nice things but I still don't take money out the company And my boyfriend actually the other day I was saying oh and we're flying to Vegas in a couple of months and I've got A conference I'm talking at and I've Asked him John to come with me and he's Like yeah I'll come with you and we'll Go you know to Vegas whatever and I was Like oh I'm probably gonna have to I'll Pay for your flights though because I Don't want to put it through the Business it's like why are you own the Business why don't you just put it for The business and I'm like uh it's like I Feel cheeky it's like who do you feel Cheek do you own it oh yeah I think my Relationship with money feels as if it's

Not mine still which is really weird It's like I'm working for somebody else But I'm also I've always been good with Money I'm never I'm not like the type of Person to get into debts or anything Like that I always work hard to you know Pay what I need Um so I guess my relationship with money Is that I thought money would make me Happier I thought money would you know It gives me the freedom to do what I Want like the fact I can travel the World and you know I'm looking at buying It you know upgrading my house I'm That's I'm doing all these kind of Life Upgrades at the minute Um but I don't think it's necessarily Changed my perception about the world or Anything like that I don't necessarily Feel any different I guess yeah and I Guess like The way you value business money is very Different to the way you value your own Money oh yeah 100 Um I remember so in our first year We set ourselves a kpi so 90 of Businesses fail in their first year and I worked to make sure we weren't one of Them and I guess we gave ourselves the Kpi to make 300 Grand in our first year Because 300 Grand Revenue okay Um 300 Grand revenue is we're making Money Um and it covered um what I forecasted

Head-wise like stuff wise to make a Little bit of profit and it was enough To You Know cover some salary or Whatever but not not enough really to Grow and I remember it was maybe like Three months in after launching we made 300 Grand And I was like and then I said to the Team if you make 600 Grand then maybe We'll look at bonuses or something like That and I said if you make a million I'll take you all on holiday because I Didn't think we'd make a million we made 1.5 in our first year and that was crazy But I didn't really understand the Concept of how easy it was to make money That's a very weird statement to make And a very outstatement to make but that Money is easy to make and I do think it Is now I know I know it's easy to make Money but the hardest thing is running The actual business that's a hard thing And running people and managing people Um but yeah I I didn't realize how Possible it was but what I saw it as all The time is if I could make money I can Reinvest in the business and keep Growing and keep growing so I've never Taken any big sums you know when people Take money out of the business and buy These little nice cars I've never done Any of that I've reinvested back in and Grown Um so yeah

Yeah one of the things I really know so I was in um Miami these last two days For this marketing mastermindy type Thing oh yeah um around and you know if Someone uh people like uh Neil Patel Were there um so they're big SEO type People yeah people doing like 100 Million dollars plus in their agencies And I'm just like feeling really poor Um but one of the things that was so Interesting about hanging out with that Sort of people doing multi-million multi Tens of Millions with their business and Then it just kind of changes your Attitude towards money and they're just Throwing out oh yeah you know the agent You know hoping the agency is going to Get acquired by private equity in the Next two years for like 20 XE but uh 250 Million something like that yeah and I'm Just like what the hell yeah just the Energy and attitude with which they Approach millions and tens of millions Yeah makes me then feel huh I guess Probably you know but perhaps it's not It's not that hot yeah whereas back in The day when I was working as a junior Doctor I was like oh 30k like what a Fantastic salary I was like top 86 of Earners in the country you know that Kind of stuff and I would have just not Realized yeah anyway it's just a kind of A different way of thinking about money And in a way it gives you permission to

Then sell a ten thousand dollar product Whereas before I'd been like oh my God This is so much money I can't imagine And just that attitude with which you Approaching so this is a weird thing so We went in our second year from three to Seven million and well and going from Second to third year three to seven Million I can't really remember that I Can't really remember how that felt Going from free because that seemed like A big jump it's more than double you Know and I don't really remember like Seeing or like or witnessing that and I Think like when you get in those bigger Numbers it's it's it feels like if you Can make 50 million you can make 300 Million because the difference between 50 million 300 million is not a lot more Because it's actually just you know just Triple that and actually that's easy if You got to 50 million I'm pretty sure You can get to 300 billion so when you Talk in those numbers it probably Doesn't it feels like blase but I Remember when I were when we first hit a Million and we actually had a million Cash in the business which is quite rare To have and usually people spend Cash Cash goes out the company but we Actually ended up making enough money to Have about a million pounds in cash in The bank and I opened the bank and I saw a million pound for the first time

I've never seen you know the actual Numbers I know other than movies like I Saw a million pound and I was like oh And a screenshot is sent to my mom I was Like have you ever seen a million pound Before and she was like no I said look At this and it just felt weird for me to See and I was like this was not in my Personal bank account by the way it was Right the seven of the business and this Cash then was reinvested into the Business to allow it to grow and hire People you know get offices we've now Expanded out to New York and things like That so that allowed us to do that Um but yeah I remember my perception of Money just thinking like wow and I still Feel like that to this day like [Music] Um I think maybe it'll change maybe I'll Start to think okay I feel a little bit Different when you're hitting your tens And your 20 Millions like I have friends Now in the industry who are about to Sell businesses for like 200 million I Might That's crazy yeah like people have to Win lotteries to get there yeah whereas You've just built an agency I'll say Just like it's hard but still like It's very rare Um but I think when you learn how to Make money you realize actually it's not

That hard to do it in you just got to Learn how to do it Um okay yeah that was a that was an Interview I was listening to with uh Alex formosi who you know does a lot of Content and you know 100 million dollar Business owner et cetera et cetera yeah And one of the questions someone asked Him was hey man you know how do I make 100 Grand a year doing what I love and He was like dude you know if that was me I'd spend one day selling 100 uh selling 100 grand for a project to a single Company and then I think what the hell Do I do with the rest of my 364 days of The year yeah and that just blew my mind Because it's just a way of thinking About money that's completely different Yeah and with it I think like people I Know who own like 30k 40K a year yeah Are not working any less hard than the People earning 40 million it's just They're they're in a different industry Yeah people are earning 40 million are Working hard to sell products to Google And Facebook and Microsoft exactly People learning 40K working hard to sell The same thing or to like a much smaller Business yeah and often it's just like Who is the client that you're working For yeah which it just completely Changes the multiple that we're talking About so I I think about this all the Time so my friend is a nurse and she

Earns like 32 Grand And she's like oh you know working day And night like the NHS is kind of like Grinding her and things like that and She's like I'm tired I'm like you do Realize if you work those hours in just In the tech industry you could be doing 200 a year she's like I don't do that Um but I just think it's crazy like People make these choices and I think You know you said then around like how Do I make all that money doing something You love sometimes people do get jobs That they love but don't make the money Like nursing my friend loves to be a Nurse he was a dream since a child and But she makes 32 Grand a year and I'm Not saying that bags I think that's a Really good salary by the way Um like my mum's average salary was like 24 Grand most of her life like if you're Earning 30 40 Grand you're ruining a More than average in the UK wage and I Think people need to recognize that Because I do think there's a lot of like Hustle and grind on YouTube and Instagram and Tick Tock or whatever Where they're making like 200 Grand and They're 18 years old I'm like no that is Not normal but we're just more Accessible to it now we just see it more And whereas yeah a 30 40 Grand salary That is a good salary Um

What's your what's your end game when it Comes to the business It's all the businesses I would prefer to sell into a business That would give us and my team the Opportunity to go and work on good Bigger Brands you know the Amazons and The apple and things like that and I Would just merge into that yeah it's not Like I plan to sell and go and Swan off In the Maldives I plan to just go and do Something bigger and give people bigger Opportunities so I would love to be Honest to merge with a company that does Something the opposite to me so one of The things I've always learned in Business is don't hire people that can Do the same thing as you hire people That can do things you can't because if There's a day where something comes up And you can't answer the question or do That thing you've got someone next to You who can so what I would love to do Is partner with another brand similar to Us you know another agency and go right You can do the thing we can't we can do The thing you can't let's partner and Build something bigger and you know I'll Go and own a small share of a bigger pie Yeah that's my dream that's what I would Love to do and I'm mostly about the work I love the job I get passionate about it Like the fact I can sit in front of a Client now and go so this is how I can

Make your lives amazing and fun and you Know come up with marketing strategies That is going to blow your mind that Excites me rather than anything else Nice So let's say you do you end up I don't Know either getting private Equity Bought out or most strategic acquisition Or something and I don't know let's say They offer 200 million and then you've Got 200 million in the bank and you Never need to work again Um how would you spend your time I'd go Start another business Yeah in the same industry or different Or probably different I think now that I Work on a lot of e-commerce and Retail Brands I've realized I can do that like I I actually I have a lot of ideas that I would love to get into e-commerce Start building up my own retail Brands And things like that and so yeah so I Think I'll probably go down that route And probably use the money to invest in Other business and see it as like a bit Of a leader and Coach them into doing it The good thing is now so right I've been Running this business for three and a Half years and we've grown exceptionally Fast to the point where we're on lists Now of the fast one of the fastest Growing businesses and I believe now I Know exactly how to do it I could grow a Lot faster how mad is that I don't need

To grow any faster because I've grown Fast anyway but how now I know exactly How to do it and what how not to do it I Could teach other people so I'd love to Sit on other businesses and Boards you Know directors Chiefs whatever it is and You know I can show you exactly how to Run this from P L's to operations to Processes to sales to whatever it is Products and yeah I feel like like what I'm doing right now is learning so I can Take that somewhere else one day I'm Still only 29. Um so yeah I think the the opportunity Is endless Would 16 year old Carrie have been Surprised by that answer you've got 200 Million in the bank and you'll be like Yeah we're going to start another Business yes hello my God like I can't I I'm very reflective I'm very Um grateful like I'm that type person Like I like still to this day like I go Home to my mum who still lives in a Council state like I said look we're Still in that I'm not yet out of that I Don't necessarily live in a beautiful House with you know private land or Anything like that that's not where I am Right now I'm still building so I I Might be making millions Um but it's the business that's making Really it's not me personally but I know One day I'm set up for success I could

Sell this business which I I've already Had 40 offers I I have I have weekly Offers coming into my inbox of Agents Other agencies wanted to buy us private Equity I've had people saying like they Would offer us you know 20 30 million And so I've I've I'm I'm there that I Could make that money well not there yet Like I I haven't achieved my mission and You know I think maybe hopefully in five Years time which is crazy because I'll Only be like what 34 or 35 hopefully I Will be in a position where I come and Speak to you and my mum's at that Counselor's day you know Um so yeah so I'm not there yet Um but I know that I'm set up now for Success and if you know if the world Ended tomorrow if rise at seven does not Exist tomorrow because something crazy Happens recession whatever I now know I Can go do something else again I have Full confidence in myself yeah like the Skills you build up along the way you Know yeah and that's where experience Comes in like I wouldn't be able to go And do that if I didn't have this You mentioned that the the mission isn't Yet complete what is the mission well The Corpus behind this stuff Businesses have Mission but I'm my own Personal mission I mean it's my own Personal mission Is

Success for me is freedom of other People's opinions and my own mind And I'm not you're free of that How do I get there how do I get free of My own mind so my own you know when You've beaten yourself up one night or Whatever it is I'm not there yet I'm Still I still beat myself up that Weren't good enough you know the idea is Not good enough I'm not yet free of my Own mind and I'm not yet free of other People's opinions so I think I I've got A long way to get there that's what Success looks like for me that's my Mission and I think I'll be able to get There through Um just learning learning about myself Learning about people learning about Business and being and then you know Hopefully I'll be 40 50 and go I'm free Of my mind I don't need to tell myself I'm not good enough Joe I mean because I Know that I am I know that I've built it So yeah I think that's what success Looks like personally for me Um but I also have this like mission Statement that I want to give confidence To do to other people to do things Differently I think for me that's what I Realized about myself is I always use my Confidence to do things differently in My career in University in marketing and The way that I tweeted that woman to get That job I had the confidence to do that

And I want to my job and my purpose here Is to give other people that confidence To do things differently so yeah there's Those two things that I'm I'm kind of Focusing on at the minute And they're unmeasurable right yeah Exactly I think that's a great place to End this thank you so much thank you any Final piece of advice let's say Someone's listened to this whole Conversation on YouTube or on whatever Podcast platform and they just really Resonate with what you say Um any any final kind of putting putting Advice for Um Don't let anyone tell you no not even Yourself Love it thank You all right so that's it for this Week's episode of Deep dive thank you so Much for watching or listening all the Links and resources that we mentioned in The podcast are going to be linked down In the video description or in the show Notes depending on where you're watching Or listening to this if you're listening To this on a podcast platform then do Please leave us a review on the iTunes Store it really helps other people Discover the podcast or if you're Watching this in full HD or 4k on YouTube then you can leave a comment Down below and ask any questions or any

Insights or any thoughts about the Episode that would be awesome and if you Enjoyed this episode you might like to Check out this episode here as well Which links in with some of the stuff That we talked about in the episode so Thanks for watching uh do hit the Subscribe button if you aren't already And I'll see you next time bye

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