Jordan Peterson Interviews Presidential Candidate Vivek Ramaswamy | EP 341

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Dr. Jordan B. Peterson and Vivek Ramaswamy discuss ESG investing, the culture wars, the upcoming US presidential election, and Vivek’s recently announced candidacy.

Vivek is an American business leader and New York Times bestselling author of “Woke, Inc.: Inside Corporate America’s Social Justice Scam,” along with his second book, “Nation of Victims: Identity Politics, the Death of Merit, and the Path Back to Excellence.”

Born and raised in Cincinnati, Ohio, he often recounts the sage advice from his father: “If you’re going to stand out, then you might as well be outstanding.” This set the course for his life: a nationally ranked tennis player, and the valedictorian of his high school, St. Xavier. He went on to graduate summa cum laude in Biology from Harvard and received his J.D. from Yale Law School while working at a hedge fund, then started a biotech company, Roivant Sciences, where he oversaw the development of five drugs that went on to become FDA-approved.

In 2022, he founded Strive, an Ohio-based asset management firm that directly competes with asset managers like BlackRock, State Street, Vanguard, and others, who use the money of everyday citizens to advance environmental and social agendas that many citizens and capital owners disagree with.

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(0:00) Coming up
(1:58) Intro
(4:00) Why run for president?
(6:00) From the top down, half the issue
(8:02) 40 years behind
(9:05) An amalgam of power
(10:14) How ESG financing works
(12:57) 2008: bailing out Wallstreet
(14:31) Birth of the new left
(15:53) Emergent reality
(17:05) Trump: kerosine on the flame
(18:45) Global “emergency”
(21:54) Climate religion
(24:39) Green Apostles
(25:39) Nuclear is sidelined for equity
(26:23) From the philosophical lens…
(29:00) Swapping Christ with Gaia
(31:15) Identity crisis in America, signals in the abyss
(33:30) Lethargic virtues
(36:41) Nested identity
(40:35) Conservatism and the promised land
(42:55) A new American dream
(43:40) Temperamental factors and political allegiance
(44:44) Conservatives are not visionaries
(45:13) What is a family?
(46:45) Dave Rubin, outlier parenting
(47:37) We categorize toward an implicit ideal
(51:11) Margins exist in every system
(52:54) Nicola Sturgeon, defining the fringe
(56:38) Grounded sacrifice
(1:01:16) Why you sacrifice your whims
(1:04:53) Freedom of autonomy, adults and kids
(1:06:56) Moses, games, temperamental niches
(1:09:34) When diversity is wanted
(1:12:33) Sustaining meaning
(1:15:57) We create the conditions
(1:19:09) Humility, failure, and crisis
(1:22:06) Losing your voice in the political machine
(1:26:00) No more teleprompters
(1:27:48) Effective communication in politics
(1:31:12) Proximal success, time to run
(1:34:55) Delaying your voice erases it
(1:36:16) Family, checks and balances
(1:37:58) A promise of accountability


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Accept yourself just the way you are What does that say about who I should Become is that just now off the table Because I'm already good enough in every Way so am I done or something get the Hell up get your act together adopt some Responsibility put your life together Develop a vision unfold all those Manifold possibilities that lurk within Be a force for good in the world and That'll be the adventure of your life A free market solution to the problem of Marginalization is something like that The offering of a true diversity it's Like yeah you're only five foot two so You can't play basketball you know but You might be a damn good jockey exactly We have enough games exactly exactly That and then people can trade on their Idiosyncrasies and you see this is an Argument that free market types haven't Made to the diversity types it's like Well the reason you want a free market Is to provide a diverse number of games So the marginalized can find a center Even if you think about institutional Purpose right you were talking about the Level of individuals in the marginalized Side and so I agree with that that's one Form of diverse approaches to diversity Here's a different approach a diverse Approaches to diversity is diversity of Institutional purpose but the problem With these you know ESG or Dei

Three-letter acronyms is what are they Effectively saying they're saying that No no you can't have your own Distinctive purpose everyone's purpose Must be common to advance environmental Social and governance goals diversity Equity and inclusion goals that's a Denial of diversity if you run an Institution you have one question why do We exist Period have a good answer to that Question and then say what type of Diversity you espouse that's really just In service of advancing that Institutional purpose different types of Institutions should want different kinds Of diversity and and they should be Transparent about what types of Diversity they don't want Foreign [Music] I'm very happy today to talk with vivec Rama Swami who has just announced his Candidacy for the American presidency And is going to well hopefully change The political landscape in doing so the Vague is an American Business leader and New York Times best-selling author of Woke Inc inside corporate America's Social justice scam along with his Second book nation of victims Identity Politics the death of Merit and The path back to Excellence Born and raised in Cincinnati Ohio he

Often recounts the sage advice from his Father Stand out then you might as well be Outstanding this set the course for his Life a nationally ranked tennis player Valedictorian of his high school Saint Xavier he went on to graduate summa Laude in biology from Harvard and then Received his JD from Yale law school While working at a hedge fund he then Started a biotech company Roy vant Sciences Where he oversold That it became FDA approved In 2022 is an important side note he Founded strive an ohio-based asset Management firm that directly competes With asset managers like BlackRock State Street and Vanguard Who use the money of everyday citizens That includes you by the way to advance Environmental and social agendas that Many citizens and capital owners Disagree with that's a far more Important issue than you might think and We're going to discuss that a lot as we Proceed through our conversation today Well hello Vivek and everyone watching It's uh On here on the YouTube platform it's Always good to have everybody's time and Attention Vivek ramaswamy who I'm Talking to today is running for President which seems to be quite the

Preposterous thing to do for anyone I Would say uh this new this next 2024 Election is going to be some interesting Uh contest as far as I can tell we're Not going to have seen anything like it Enough the fact that you threw your hat In the ring I think is part and parcel Of the whole show uh so so let's start Let's start by just Exploring why it is that you decided to Do this and we should do that why did You decide to do this and what is it That you hope to accomplish by making This run so let's start with why you're Doing it So you know some of the journey I've Been on over the last few years but I Think that's what led me to the doorstep I've been addressing for the last few Years this merger of state power and Corporate power that together do what Neither can do on its own and and part Of me is long believed that the Republican Party in the United States is Behind by 40 years right reciting Slogans they memorized in 1980 when the Real threat to Liberty today is Different so I've taken on the woke Industrial complex in America through The books I've written through traveling The country most recently taking on the ESG Movement by starting strive last Year and that's where my headspace was I Did not think I was going into politics

I thought that I wanted to actually Avoid the limiting shackles of partisan Politics it just felt so constraining I Thought of running for the U.S Senate I Decided not to do that I said no no I Want to do this independently as an Independent voice thought leader author And then you know look I had successful I successfully built a biotech company Before they put those skills to work Starting strive that was where my Exclusive Focus was going to be and I'm Proud to say I think we are already Having major impact on the market Through my work at strive and even just Through putting a spotlight on the Problem But I got to be really honest about this And this was the realization that dawned On me after you know years into that Journey Is that it does take Tango okay and what I mean by that is The top-down version of this problem the Cynical exploitation of corporate power And state power to Shackle the human Spirit I think is only half the issue Because that only works if there's a Culture that's really willing to buy it Up it only works if there's a populist That's buying up what they're selling And to me I think that requires every One of us to look deeply in the mirror And ask ourselves what is it about us as

A people that wants us to bend the knee Or that makes us want to bend the knee To the powers that be that wants us to Embrace these new secular religions and That wasn't quite a problem that I was Going to be able to address even through Market action in taking on BlackRock or The ESG forces in capital markets and That's really what when don don made it There was no better way to drive a Cultural Revival in America than to Successfully and successfully is an Important part of this but then to Successfully run for president and the Whole premise of my campaign pain is Actually to define a national identity Answer the question of what it means to Be an American in the year 2023 I do not Believe we have a good answer to that Question in this country I'm on a Mission to deliver an answer to that Question and my basic premise here is That our absence of that answer that is The black hole at the center of our Nation's soul that is what allows wokism And gender ideology and climatism and Covetism to fill the void these are Secular religions that prey on that Vacuum if we can fill that vacuum with Say a vision of national identity that Runs so deep that it dilutes these other Agendas to irrelevance that is how we Win and I believe that there isn't a Candidate in this field I believe who's

Quite up to that challenge I'm not sure I am either but I do believe that I'm Going to give it the best shot that we Have which is why I'm running Okay well you you brought up a lot of Very complex issues in that just Description of your motives and so I'm Going to walk through them one by one to Unpack them for everybody because you Know you said the Republicans are 40 Years behind it I think that's probably True of of uh organizations like the UN As well and and 40 years is a long time Given how much has changed in the last 10 years and what that means is that The average person who's watching and Listening to this is also behind and Isn't even aware of of what uh acronyms Like ESG mean or why they should really Give a damn I just interviewed the uh CEO of the national uh uh uh what's the Organization State Treasures Organization ah I said it's cheap it's a Financial officers organization now There's 28 States I know I know them Yeah yeah yeah well they're pushing hard Back against the the ASG movement and And but you know we talked about in that Podcast the fact that people don't even Know what the hell that means now you Opened your description essentially I Don't want to put words in your mouth But from my perspective you opened your Your description of your motives with a

Statement about what essentially boils Down to a kind of fascist collusion and What we're seeing is an amalgam of power That's corporate which of course the Left Wingers complain about that's Government which the right Wingers Complain about and then of media which Everybody complains about and rightly so And there's this idea that seems to be Raining in the upper echelons of the Power structures that That we're facing an apocalyptic Emergency of such magnitude whatever the Emergency happens to be that they should Be conveniently seated all the power and One of the fronts upon which that battle Is being fought is the ESG movement and So do you want to walk through that for Everyone just to bring them up to date Absolutely I mean this has been Something of my obsession over the last Several years and not just as a Commentator but as a doer and as an Entrepreneur too so the the issue with The ESG movement it stands for Environmental social and governance Factors it's designed to sound boring For a reason my general rule of thumb is If it sounds like a three-letter acronym That bores you that's a good sign that You should be paying more attention Because it was designed to bore you what What this whole game is about is using Private power using Capital markets to

Accomplish through the back door what Government could not get done through The front door under the Constitution so I'll tell you what it is and then I'll Walk through the history of how we got There because that's also pretty Important too what the essence of the ESG movement is what it does is it uses The money of everyday citizens Americans But Canadians too Australians and Western Europeans it uses the money of Everyday citizens To invest in companies and to vote their Shares in ways that Advance one-sided Progressive agendas environmental and Social agendas that most of those people Do not agree with that most of those People did not know were actually being Advanced with their own money and which Don't Advance the financial best Interests of most people whose money is Actually used so what does that mean Think about yourself saving in a Retirement account or a 401k account or A brokerage account you think that the Person who's managing that money is Exclusively looking after your best Financial interests Turns out they're not they're also Looking after advancing these other Environmental and social goals who are These institutions they're Asset Management firms like BlackRock or State Street or Vanguard or Invesco or

Countless others That have signed a pledge to say that They're going to align all of their Underlying companies with the goals of The Paris climate Accords with Net Zero Standards by 2050 with modern diversity Equity and inclusion standards and those Three or four firms alone manage about 20 trillion dollars maybe even a little Bit more that's more than the US GDP Right now in the hands of three to four Financial institutions but they're not Using their money to do it they're using Most money they're using the money of Probably most listeners to this exchange Right now people watching this good Chances that their money their Retirement accounts their brokerage Accounts are being used to tell Companies like apple to adopt racial Equity audits that Apple's board Initially did not want to adopt to tell Companies like Chevron to adopt scope 3 Emissions caps which I can talk about What that means but that Chevron did not Want to adopt and that most people Watching this probably didn't want to Force on Chevron either but their money Was used to do it anyway that's what This ESG movement is all about so how Did we get here is actually a really Important question And a lot of this began there were two Big Milestones seeing the supercharging

Of this ESG movement in our economy and In capital markets the first one which I Think of as the big bang that really set The whole thing for all intents and Purposes into motion was the 2008 Financial crisis what happened in the 08 Financial crisis and by the way I had a Front row seat to this I got my first Job in New York at an elite hedge fund In the fall of 2007 you know the fund I Worked at got an honorable mention in Michael Lewis's book The Big Short this Is my first job out of college this is This is fun stuff for me right I didn't A lot of people lost a lot of money in On Wall Street I didn't have any money So it didn't matter to me it was more of A learning experience which was a pretty Rich one but I had a front row seat what Happened was In the aftermath of the 08 crisis Republicans it's worth remembering this Republicans in this country bailed out The big Banks which I don't know what Your view is Dr Peterson I view that as A major mistake it's a cardinal sin the Bush Administration and Hank Paulson a CEO and alumnus of Goldman Sachs used Public taxpayer funds to bail out Goldman Sachs while letting his Competitors fail this was crony Capitalism all the way down And the left actually had a point in This country Occupy Wall Street was born

And what they said is look if you're Going to play that crony capitalist game Then you know what we're going to play Our game we're just going to take money From your wealthy corporate fat cat Pockets and redistribute it to poor People to help poor people because That's what we on the far left want to Do on the Occupy Wall Street movement But right around that time there was There was a fissure in the left-wing Movement in this country where there was The birth of this new let's call it the Woke left Barack Obama had just been Elected the first black president United States there was a lot of cultural Currents in the U.S that said well wait A minute there the real problem isn't Quite economic Injustice or poverty it's Really racial Injustice and misogyny and Bigotry and by the way climate change This is supposed to Al Gore's Inconvenient Truth this actually Presented the opportunity of a Generation for Wall Street to say that No no okay guys we'll make a deal with You we will use our corporate power use Our money really your money To applaud diversity and inclusion to Put token minorities on corporate boards To Muse about this racially disparate Impact of climate change from the Mountaintops of Davos after flying there In a private jet we'll do all of these

Things But we don't do it for free We expect the new Left to look the other Way when it comes to leaving our Corporate power intact and so they Defend Occupy Wall Street most people Don't even remember what Occupy Wall Street is it went by the wayside and That's how the birth of this new what I've sometimes called woke industrial or ESG industrial complex was born where Wall Street said that you know what if You can't beat us join us and that's Exactly what happened so that was the First thing do you think it was that do You think it was that conscious Or do you think that it was that was the Consequence of a thousand micro Decisions you know I mean were there But it's easy to see us okay it was the Latter yeah I mean this is not this is Not a smoke-filled room where there was Some sort of meeting in the back of Goldman Sachs has brought boardroom on 85 Broad Street in lower Manhattan no This isn't and that's An ethical conspiracy theory this isn't An emergent reality right And when they think about what a Conspiracy theory is that turns into Reality Just watch the camera reel in slow Motion it plays out in in dangerously Boring form this is how this is how the

Sausage gets made so certainly that was The first Catalyst and so what began as A challenge to the system which is you Know as an intellectual or whatever I Always I always enjoy it if I agree it Or not it's at least interesting to Watch something that began as a Challenge to the system stakeholder Capitalism and ESG Slowly became ossified as the system and There's a lot of forces behind that the Rise of passive index funds played a big Role and that's a discussion I can get Into another another time or maybe later In this discussion but a big then Catalyst came out in there was two big Catalysts that came out one was in 2016 And one was in 2018. the thing that Happened in 2016 of course is that Donald Trump was elected president of The United States This created a seismic shock wave Across The Establishment class both in capital Markets as well as the linkage between Business and politics and when they said Okay wait a minute this game may not be Played the way it's supposed to be going Forward if business if political leaders Like Donald Trump are going to break the System then we The Business Leaders need To exercise our authority to step into The void instead and then they were Vindicated or so they thought when Trump Pulled out of the Paris climate Accords

In 2018 not a lot of people realize this That was a big event that is the event That threw kerosene on this ESG storm And you know even the people who are Complaining about the CSG movement need To understand where it came from a Little bit better than they do this was A big deal so this is what then caused Calpers the California teachers and Pension retirement system and other big Allocators the people who give BlackRock And State Street your money they started To say that look If political leaders are not going to Step up to the occasion to address the Existential challenges we face like Global climate change then Business Leaders need to do it instead Larry Fink The CEO of BlackRock started saying Similar things that we have to earn our Social license to operate and that's Really what caused this ESG thing to Spread like wildfire was that event of Pulling out of the Paris climate Accords Tie the corporate response to say Occupy Wall Street at the end of the 2008 Financial crisis with the climate Catastrophe and so so let's talk about The climate catastrophe for a moment or Two because and also to find stakeholder Capitalism because the uh the The Narrative that's insisted upon by the Wolf left let's say but also by these Well capitalists is that the emergency

That confronts us on the environmental Uh Frontier is so cataclysmic that any And all emergency measures are Thoroughly not only thoroughly Justified But morally required now I have a Problem with that theory psychologically As well as technically and so Psychologically I've been trying to think figure out how You separate the wheat from the chaff on The leadership front especially in the Face of an emergency a real emergency Because emergencies do occur from time To time But here's a rule of thumb everyone Who's listening can see him try this out For themselves and see what they think But If the emergency you're confronting Terrifies you So badly that you're paralyzed into Immobility or tempted to aggregate all The power to yourself and become a Tyrant then you have defined yourself as Insufficient for the job you should be Able to maintain a calm head regardless Of the impending emergency because There's going to be emergencies and if You become a tyrant during an emergency Then you're a tyrant and so and then so That's the psychological issue even if There is an emergency we shouldn't be Aggregating power into an elite and then There's a second element too which is

Yeah what bloody emergency precisely you Know I've talked a lot to Bjorn lomberg For example and many other people I Would say as informed as lomberg and There's no evidence even in the ipcc Reports themselves that climate change Is uh first of all entirely man-made Because it's not and second even if it Is there is no evidence whatsoever the Ipcc reports that there's going to be Some apocalyptic turning point in the Next 50 years that justifies Untold Trillions of panic dollars being spent Well we simultaneously destabilize our Power grids and increase the cost of Electricity by up to five times and make Ourselves at least in Europe much more Reliable or much more Reliant on Russia and also throw poor People into poverty and risk the fossil Fuel infrastructure that feeds half the Planet because people actually also Don't understand that ammonia is made Out of fossil fuel and ammonia Fertilizer feeds four billion people and So so so anyways you said 2008 Wall Street is guilty because of the bailouts The lefties pushed them hard on the Ethical front and rightly so they decide To turn to ESG but then that's also Amplified by this sense of apocalyptic Climate doom and so what's your Formulation of the environmental Challenge that confronts challenges that

Confront us now how do you construe that Says I have more to say about the ESG Story but I gotta I gotta yeah you just Said I just got to pause on what you Just said it was really some really good Stuff in there okay so So you you I just need to go I'm gonna Go one step further than you and draw a Linkage between the psychological Critique and the technical critique Because they're related right so the First thing you said was a humble and Powerful point which is even if there is Some sort of existential apocalyptic Issue you should not want to entrust the People who are going to then wield Tyrannical Force to address it not to Mention the fact that the technical Issue is itself a completely artificial One right it is grounded on false Premises that deserve to be called out And I can call those out Bjorn Lundberg Alex Epstein others can call them out we Can we can go into all the details of That But the point I want to make is that Those two critiques that you just Offered spot on as they are are deeply Linked And the reason is you were almost too Charitable in that psychological account In that actually the psychological Account explains the fact that the Entire climate agenda

Actually has nothing to do with the Climate it's not like this was a Tyrannical response to a threat it was The creation of an artificial threat to Exercise tyrannical power itself okay It's a religious cult and so so I said This numerous times I think the I think The climate religion has about as much To do with the climate as the Spanish Inquisition had to do with Christ which Is to say nothing at all it was really Just about power and dominion and Punishment all the way down and I can I Can basically prove to you in a short Amount of time right if the climate Religion do it really I mean just just I'm gonna to avoid going on for hours I'll just pick a couple of tidbits but But we could go on for hours but the Couple tidbits we can just start with Are So so one is if you really care about Carbon emissions as the end-all be-all Okay first of all you'd be delineating Which kind of carbon emissions matter I I don't subscribe to the tenets of this Religion but I understand this religion I think it's worth understanding a Religion even if you're not a Practitioner even if you subscribe to This religion there's a difference Between methane leakage and carbon Dioxide well methane leakage is far Worse in places like Russia and China so

Then it should be a mystery that you Want to shift carbon production from the United States where you tell companies Like Exxon and Chevron to stop producing To places like China like Petro China on The other side of the world yeah and by The way this is exactly what the ESG Movement it's like the Apostles of this Church right so BlackRock is like an Apostle of this Spanish Inquisition-style Church BlackRock Forces companies like Exxon and Chevron To drop oil production to meet Net Zero Standards by 2050. yet literally some of The same companies buying up those same Projects on the other side of the planet Are Petro China who BlackRock is a large Shareholder of without telling Petro China to adopt any of those same Emissions caps this is nuts if you think That you care about reducing carbon Emissions and it's not even as I was Alluding to methane emissions before It's not even net neutral methane even If you subscribe to this crazy religion Is 80 times worse for global warming Then carbon dioxide so it's not even net Neutral it's worse so that's the first Breadcrumb that there's something else Going on here The second breadcrumb that there's Something else going on here is that That same movement certainly it's Apostles in the ESG movement that are so

Hostile to carbon emissions Is also hostile to the best known form Of carbon free energy production known To mankind which is nuclear energy yeah Right so that's the second little Breadcrumb that suggests there's Something else going on here and the Problem with nuclear energy in a Nutshell is that nuclear energy might be Too good at solving the alleged clean Energy problem such that it doesn't Solve for the actual agenda which is Delivering Equity between the West America in particular and the rest of The world to catch up that's really what This club deliveries are delivering and Delivering that power that we've been Talking about of course in terms of the Proper relate the grand Inquisition well Those are the time right so that's Really what's going on Those are two stunning points and I want To lay them out uh philosophically for a Moment just so people get what this Means completely so let's say that we do Buy the propositions of the of what Vivek has been calling the climate Religion we'll get back to that term Later so if we do buy that then we're Going to make the assumption that the Fundamental existential crisis facing us Is one of pollution and that that can be Reduced in complexity to carbon dioxide Emission and maybe methane and a couple

Of other greenhouse gases now I don't Accept any of that and I know you don't As well but we'll give the devil is due If that's actually the driving Factor Then the fundamental uh all fundamental Actions and perceptions should be Directed towards minimizing let's say Carbon dioxide output but the first Point you make is well we're making it Very difficult for Western countries to Use coal and to explore for fossil fuels But we're making it very easy for China To do so and since we all share the same Atmosphere and China and other you know Terribly governed countries have way Worse environmental regulations they're Not even in the same universe all we're Doing is substituting a relatively clean Fossil fuel for relatively filthy fossil Fuel and then you know you added that Additional decoration which is well Isn't it also convenient that companies Like Black Rock happen to own huge Shares in exactly the Chinese companies Whose interests they're promoting and so You know that that's kind of so what That means is that by the measurement Standards of The Advocates of the Climate religion themselves their Policies are not only a failure they're Actually positively counterproductive Just like they have been in Germany in The UK and then and that's like that's a Subtle mystery on the fossil fuel front

But then you have the blatant mystery Which is the second thing you post you You pointed to which is okay boys and Girls we can pretty much solve the Bloody carbon dioxide problem like Overnight with nuclear and yes we have Small nuclear plants now and we have Nuclear plants that are way safer than They were 50 years ago and that could be Built at a modular level and so why do You oppose them and well that's that Brings us into the religious issue I Would say because this is not so much a Pro Planet agenda designed to bring about Harmony with the natural world as it is An attempt to simultaneously destabilize The entire industrial infrastructure or In accordance with the claim that all Human activity is nothing but you know Cancerous growth on the planet combined With this underground desire to accrue All tyrannical power into centralized Elite hands that's exactly right so okay So with that let's talk about you you've Insisted a number of times that the Climate narrative is a religious or Quasi-religious structure so why don't You I've got some thoughts about that Which I'll share eventually but I would Like you to lay out why you use that Terminology specifically yeah so I I Mean that in two senses worse is the Sense in which it is a religious

Institution gone awry and then the Second is in which it fills the Psychological need for religion and God In the everyday person on the first of Those just as you were laying out the Philosophical framing of it I was Reminded of actually one of my favorite Stories about Christ actually which came From not the Bible but from fyodor Dostoyevsky's book uh the brothers Karamazov Brothers gay uh in his chapter Entitled The Grand Inquisitor actually And it tells the story of how Christ Comes back to Earth during the 15th or 16th century or whatever in Seville Spain he's walking the streets Performing Miracles and then the grand Inquisitor a person leading the Spanish Inquisition spots him on the street and Has him arrested and the whole climax of The chapter is the dialogue between Christ and the grand Inquisitor and with The grand Inquisitor tells Christ is Look we the church don't need you here Anymore you are supposed to be a symbol That helps us do our work but your Presence here actually stops us from Getting our work done and he sentences Christ to execution the next morning Swap and climate for Christ which really Is what's happening in the psychological Minds of people who are buying this Religion of which I'll get to in a Second but that's also what's going on

Here is the climate's just an excuse and In fact once you get into a discussion About actually addressing carbon Emissions say with nuclear energy they Get very worried so they're sentencing Nuclear energy to death because that's Their Messiah and their savior right you Said you wanted to actually get rid of Carbon emissions well you would you Would welcome the second coming of Christ the second coming of the climate Solution of nuclear energy no no they Sentence it to death because as the Grand Inquisitor told Christ in that Story your presence here actually Impedes our work you're just supposed to Be a symbol for us so in a certain sense It has a religious quality in terms of The church that protects its own turf Even from the very God that it tells It's it's you know parishioners to Worship now the second question though Is why are the parishioners worshiping At all and I think this gets to the Heart of in a weird way my candidacy for President of the United States even Though we're in deep philosophical Terrain here I just think we're in the Middle of this identity crisis where we Are so hungry for For purpose and meaning and identity As Americans at a moment it's probably true For much of the western world too even Beyond America but we're so hungry for a

Cause at a moment in our history when The things that used to fill that void Faith is one of them faith in God is a Big one but patriotism is also a big one National identity is big family is also Pretty big in this category Even hard work actually we can get into That later but these are sources of Identity sources of Pride sources of Grounding they're grounded in truth and The way I look at us as human beings I Mean this is the first personal Reflection right we're just we're like Blind bats we're lost in some cave in an Abyss and we send out these sonar Signals for our echolocation of identity Right we we can't see where we are but We deduce where we are by bouncing off The signals we send and get them back as Sources of Truth okay I send a signal Out family is one source of identity I Get back God is another source of Identity I get back my nation is another Source of identity I get back my hard Work the things I create in the world These things we deduce our identity and It tells us even though we're blind Where we are lost in that Abyss but when Those things disappear We send out that signal And then nothing comes back And then we're lost and so then we start Grasping at artificial sources of that Identity racial identity gender identity

What do you think this was bizarre Gender ideology happens to have Arisen From Climate disaster catastrophism that's a Source of identity two climate instead Of Christ and so it's no accident that We see all of these secular religions Arise at the same time why do we see Wokism at the same time as we see Radical gender ideology racial orchism Is gender Radiology as climatism as Covetism It's a symptom of that deeper Abyss that We're lost in and so okay so Now you broke this out in two ways you Said I'm going to walk through your Argument you said there's an offer on Hand from above so to speak from the ESG And climate ideologues but but there's a An also corresponding need in the Population that's associated with the Kind of emptiness yes and so okay and Then you also talked about the brothers Karamazov and the notion of of the grand Inquisitors so I want to address all three of those Points so the first point is that the Developmental psychologist John Piaget Pointed out that the last stage of Cognitive development as far as he was Concerned was uh adolescent messianism And what he meant by that was that People between the ages of 16 to 21 when They're they're undergoing their last

Great neural uh uh pruning by the way They sort of settle into their adult Adult identities they have to catalyze Them and the way that human beings Catalyze their adult identity is by Identifying with something Beyond Themselves And so in a in the archaic situation That would be with tribe for example but Also with the traditions of the tribe Right rather than just the people that Are there presently now with the ancient Traditions of the tribe and they'll be Initiated into that now there's a Messianic urge that comes along with That which could be expressed would be Expressed in modern terms as something Like the desire of young people to to Save the planet okay so that's a true Psychological hunger now what's Ought being offered by the radical left Uh to address that Messianic need is Something like it's very very simple and This is part of the problem it's like Well to be Christ to be the Messiah you Have to face down the apocalypse right That's the last judgment the apocalypse That currently confronts us is Environmental you know and environmental Apocalypses have confronted us Throughout the entire history of mankind So we have a an ecological what would You say a psychological predisposition To be alerted to Environmental Okay so

There's an apocalypse it's environmental The environmental apocalypse is a Consequence of carbon carbon is a Consequence of excess industrial output If you adopt the radical left ideology Which is anti-industrial then you you Fulfill your Messianic mission Now that's on the positive side the Negative side is well you can also do With absolutely no effort on your part Because all you have to do is oppose the Right things And it also lifts the moral burden from Your shoulders because instead of having To undergo a psychological Transformation that would That would involve confrontation of all Of your own inadequacies let's say to Put yourself on the right path Spiritually you can just demonize Whoever happens to be convenient for Demonization and in the radical left Case it would be anything to do with the Industrial or corporate world and you Can put all the sins on the scapegoat's Shoulders and you're done with them and So that's that's an expanded vision of That mess ionism right it's this Overwhelmingly simple solution to a very Complex moral problem all right now on The identity front You laid out a bunch of issues that I Think are extremely relevant so you know That people are struggling with their

Identities and what's happened is They're also being offered a one idea Fits all problems solution which is While your identity is nothing other Than your group identity it's your Sexual proclivity which is a pretty Pathetic identity it's your ethnicity It's your race it's some group identity Which also takes the responsibility off Of you by the way now you might say well What constitutes a valid identity in Contrast to that and you've already Pointed to a number of those things so This is also where I think the Psychological Community has failed to a Large degree on this front now Were The Heirs of a liberal Protestant Tradition Socially and psychologically and we Believe that our identities are Fundamentally individual and subjective Okay but that's actually not true Because your identity is nested now you Pointed so let's think of nestings okay Because we could build a hierarchy That's a proper hierarchy conceptually And this is this is a good way of Formulating what actually constitutes a Robust identity this is where you'd get Signal for those For those uh you know those forays that You're putting out those signals exactly Okay so look a person has to be bound Into an intimate relationship and

Everybody needs and wants that so that's The first level of social integration And then the the couple has to be Integrated within a family And then the family within a Neighborhood and the neighborhood within A community and the community with it in A town a town within the state the state Within a nation and then the nation Let's say into something approximating Whatever web of international agreements Is necessary to minimally keep the peace That's a subsidiary hierarchy of Responsibility You know and in Exodus in the Old Testament book Exodus part of what that Book addresses is what forms of Governance are necessary as an Alternative to tyranny so single Top-down tyranny the Pharaoh or the Desert which is you know completely Scattered individuality and the answer Is the technical answer is the Subsidiary hierarchy of responsibility And so that means you know as an Individual you have a responsibility as A couple as a family member as a Community member and all of those and Then you can think of identity As the belonging in all of those Hierarchical positions and you can think Of psychological Health not as something That occurs in in an interior space but As the harmony between all of those

Subsidiary levels so it's an emergent Property of Harmony and not something That's carried internally Hey Reagan I know you're picky when it Comes to skin care products so tell me What did you think of genucel skin care Exactly right Garrett I'm the type of Person who needs to know exactly what Ingredients I'm using in my skincare Routine which is why I'm loving genucel Their products are made with Antioxidants and formulated by a Compounding pharmacist and they're all About preventative skin care I've been Using genucel's new microbiome Moisturizer to Target skin redness fine Lines and other signs of premature aging It uses the same probiotics that are in Your yogurt as it turns out these super Ingredients can have the same nourishing Benefits on your skin as they do to your Digestive system the results have been Incredible my skin cleared up within Hours genuso has a product for every Skin type and it's not just for us girls I got started with their most popular Package which includes all their best Sellers bundled into one amazing price You heard it here first go to Jordan to get 70 off Their most popular package that's Jordan Jordan [Music] I I love I mean this is this is

Beautiful stuff actually and and when You just describe the desert versus Pharaoh uh Dynamic out there the Separation something clicked for me okay Yeah well it's a killer set of ideas Well even in a much more practical sense For me to you know something as mundane As a political race here okay it clicks For me why I'm doing this is that yeah You're right you and I and others like Us have complained about how the left Has actually preyed on that vacuum by at Least offering a substantive even if False fundamentally artificial set of Identities to fill that void But actually I'm sick of complaining About that without critiquing the Conservative movement where's the Conservative movement in filling its That identity with an alternative right We can ring or we can do all the hand Ringing we want where are we over the Last 10 years where's our leadership Where's the leadership of for example Conservative movement pro-american Movement pro-national movement Pro Family movement whatever you want to Call it these guys have been asleep at The switch while they've been watching The other side take advantage of this And that that kind of or or well not Just that it's worse than that like if You're participating in it in some ways They're participating well it's the

Conservatives it's the conservatives in The UK who've been putting forward the Net Zero agenda so exactly so so you Know so especially especially in Western Europe but even some wings of the Republican Party in the U.S are their Meek response is effectively effectively Participating in this and this is where The analogy that hit me when you're Talking about the desert and Pharaoh is That We as a people are lost in the desert And yet we're criticizing that Phenomenon by still critiquing Pharaoh Well the Israelites already go many of Them are already gone okay that's where A lot of the Grassroots movement that I'm leading already and hoping to lead Is we're already in the desert we're Still lost though we're not going to Find the Promised Land by still Criticizing pharaoh to the contrary the Longer you're lost the longer the more Likely it is the people are going to say That I need to go back and bend the knee To Pharaoh actually I want to be ruled By Pharaoh that's exactly what's Happening so so where is the promised Land and you know I'm not I'm not gonna You know this analogy is related to a Weird place I'm not going to claim to be A Moses figure or anything like that That's beyond beyond any of our pay Grade but I will say you know when I

Laid out in this room the video where we Launched this presidential campaign from Right here in the front foyer of my House We said that my goal is to create a new American Dream for the 21st century okay FDR had his new deal I don't agree with A lot of it but FDR had his new deal JFK Had his new frontier Where's the conservative vision of where We're going that's what I call the new Dream the new American Dream it's not Just about money yeah it's about Reviving our conviction in our purpose As Citizens what does that mean Unapologetic pursuit of Excellence I can Talk about what that means but but That's my vision maybe a different Candidate can offer theirs and if this Republican primary ended up being a Competition of those ideas and Visions Man our country's head into a good place But that's what's missing yes definitely Well okay so let's let's talk about the Conservative issue here for a minute so If you look at what temperamental uh Factors predict Political allegiance that the literature On that's quite clear if you're higher In openness if you're hiring creativity And you're low in conscientiousness you Tend to Move to the radical left let's say if You're high in conscientiousness and low

In openness you tend to move towards the Conservative front and there's a There's a constant dialogue between Those extremes because the creative People are necessary to make changes When changes are necessary but dangerous Otherwise and the conservative types are Very good at maintaining functional Tradition but are intransigent in the Face of necessary change and so free Speech is actually the mechanism by Which that conundrum is mediated because People who can engage in free speech can Keep arguing about which Traditions need To be carefully modified okay so but Here's the problem that it presents on The conservative front so conservatives Are not Visionaries by definition The Visionaries tend to tilt in the more Radical Direction because they have Radical Visions you know and and so the Conservatives are always pushed back Into a reactionary standpoint almost Always they they object vociferously to The excesses of the left but because They're not Visionary they can't extract From their tradition an image of the Promised land for the future now and I've been working with an organization In the UK that's trying to do something That's analogous to what you're doing to To lay out something approximating a Compelling Vision on the conservative Side you know I'll I'll talk about one

Part of it sure because I think it Strikes right to the core even of what We're discussing so we spent a lot of Time talking about families Because So you have the individual then you have The individual in a couple but the next Order of subsidiary organization is Family And then you might ask yourself well What is a family now The the answer on the inclusive left is A family is any old organization of any Sort but that's That's so blurry that it leaves people With no guidelines they don't know what To do because if you can do anything you Have no direction and so well we could Say well a family a family fundamentally Is a unit that produces children And And if you're not willing to buy that Definition well then you could go Develop your own definition of family But it seems to me that there's Something core about laying the Groundwork for the emergence and proper Rearing of children that's key to what Constitutes a family and then one of the Corollaries of that is well if you're Going to have children you're probably Going to need to have a man and a woman Involved Otherwise it's extremely well it's very

Difficult otherwise and that actually Turns out to be relevant when you're Thinking about an ideal so I talked to Dave Rubin about this for example so Reuben who's conservative and gay is Married to his his partner his husband Dave and they went through the entire Surrogacy route to have a couple of Infants and it was very very very very Very very complicated both ethically Practically and financially and so and They managed it so far you know they Have these two kids and I suspect They'll do a perfectly good job of Giving these kids a wonderful home but They're also incredibly financially uh What would you say privileged you know Dave's earned it but they have the Capital to make this non-standard Solution of possibility But it's by no means duplicatable for The typical person I mean the simplest Way to have a child for the average Person is to have man and a woman Involved and you can use technological Intermediaries but it can't propagate Easily that solution and so one of the Things that's emerged this is extremely Interesting one of the things that's Emerged on the cognitive Neuroscience Front recently and the same things Happened in the field of AI is the Realization that at the center of all of Our Concepts

Is an ideal that's actually how we Categorize we categorize just like Plato Initially uh hypothesized we CA we Literally categorize in relationship to An implicit ideal I think so to even use To even use the term family and in it For that to be meaningful there has to Be an ideal and the organization that I've started working with and helping Put together has Made it uh what part of our formal Propositional landscape that the ideal Has to be something like stable Long-term monogamous heterosexual Child-centered couples And now the problem with the ideal this Is what the postmodernists have shaken Their fists about forever especially the French like daradu and Foucault the Problem with the ideal is that it Marginalizes Right because the more distant you are From the ideal the less you can fit in And so the question then arises what do You do with the margin and that's that That's also a question that's so old That that was even dealt with in Biblical times by the way the problem of The Fringe or the margin and the answer Has to be something like look Everybody falls short of the ideal Like even a married stable married Heterosexual couple lots of the times During their say 30-year marriage

They're going to fight they're going to Wish they were divorced they're going to Wish they were with other partners there Might be Affairs lots of people end up Divorced there's there's the vast Majority of us will never Realize the idea well none of us will in In totality but that doesn't mean we Should sacrifice the ideal what it means Is that we should put forth the ideal Forthrightly but allow the necessary Space for deviation from the ideal so That everybody can move forward despite The fact that the ideal has to rule it's A great great framing I just want to Jump in there for one second to draw Even one further distinction if I may is First is there's the sense in which each Of us falls short of our ideals okay Both as individuals and even as a nation I mean you could extrapolate this to the American level and you know take the Critique of America as a nation is that While America is hypocritical right it Had Nations that set an emotion but There were slaves on day one Ergo the Ideals themselves are false No in fact Hypocrisy is probably pretty good Evidence that you have ideals right There's no sense in which for example The Chinese Communist Party could be Called hypocritical you can't be called Hypocritical if you actually are Measured against fundamentally nihilism

At your core so idealism and the Existence of ideals makes hypocrisy Possible we should be grateful when we See hypocrisy because then we know we Have two things we have both ideals and We have something that is real and Something that is real never matches or Rarely ever matches the ideals so there In a certain sense we should be we Should we should be Vindicated we should Feel reassured that we're we're doing Something right because we have both Ideals in reality and that's just true At the individual level of anybody who's In a married relationship knows this if They don't admit it they're lying to you Or they're lying to themselves it's just It's just truth okay I think that that is still distinct from A second question that you raised which Is also a good question which is I think What What and I'm a big fan of taking the Best arguments we possibly can to Understand you know what we're what We're you know taking seriously here Is is the marginal point is is who's at The outer end of the margin and there I Think some of this relates to not just a Failure of an individual temporally over The course of a lifetime to depart from The ideal but some ways in which a Certain person cannot themselves be part Of the ideal ever because their genetics

Are real right the what brings us into This world Israel the the gender be it Sexual orientation be it other Attributes that that make one successful Or not in a system that's set up in a Certain way There is literally a reality of Permanent marginalization for some even According to an ideally structured System and so I think it's important to Take that seriously but the problem with The modern left the modern radical left Is it turns that Exercise of Interrogating the question of what we do At the margin and makes a whole new System out of it right what began as a Challenge to the system on behalf of the Marginalized becomes the new system that Is the essence of the woke cancer Actually I didn't mind it when it was an Idea in in the halls of a liberal arts Academy to think about at least debate How it is we accommodate the people who Are marginalized in a system that is Still an ideal system that's an open Conversation that at least under Parameters of free speech which as you Said is an intermediating mechanism Between kind of the the creative Liberals and the and the you know what Was the juxtaposition to creative uh Cards conscience conscientious Conservatives that's great but as long

As we have Free Speech but the problem Is when that challenge to the system Becomes the new system we're then Heading to a very different place than Even the ideal that okay pro-marginal Would have argued for okay well so so we Can lay it out a little bit too what Happened to Nicola sturgeon is a perfect Example of that the prime minister of Scotland who just resigned because Here's the problem with the Fringe okay So the the ideal in the center is a Unity it's a single thing The Fringe is a multiplicity now the Problem with the Fringe is that because It's a multiplicity it can't occupy the Center without destroying the ideal and That just brings the whole category to a To collapse The Fringe Of The Fringe Will destroy The Fringe that's right so Yeah so we can't do without the ideal Even though I love I love I love what You I mean the The Fringe defines itself In relation to the ideal right in a dark Sense but it has Freedom it also has Freedom because exactly it's like the Freedom of being at the margin because Because there's many versions of being At the front it's kind of like that lost Bat analogy you send your your sonar Signal it bounces back and says this is Where you are it's like planets orbiting The Sun all right once the sun's gone You're just you're you're there's going

To be a whole new there's going to be a Whole new structure around you that's Exactly what happens and sometimes I Think conservatives they'll use this Phrase right they'll come to eat their Own right and and and I think that that There's a point to that but it's low Resolution I mean the essence of what's Going on is actually what you described Which is that once you've destroyed or Invaded the ideal Itself by definition Being on the fringes is sort of Nihilistic at its core and so at that Point it's a free-for-all which is to Say that okay well you thought you were On The Fringe as being gay well guess What you know or if you could do the Feminist you ain't seen nothing yeah you Ain't seen nothing you can see the Feminist version of this too Title IX Women's sports you know women are On The Fringe well then when that itself Becomes the center of the story you just Wait till you just say that the men Become the women that actually through The back door decimate the existence of Women's sports not because they weren't Funded pre-title IX but even after Funding the essence of it is gone if Biological men are competing as women Same thing with respect to the with Respect to being gay all of this time to Sort of x accept somebody who is Attracted to someone of a different sex

At Birth by saying that the sex of the Person you're attracted to is hardwired At Birth right that was the premise of The gay rights movement and I think There's a lot of Truth in it too is Completely undercut by a new movement That says your sex itself is completely Fluid over the course of your lifetime Yeah so so it isn't quite what some People will say was is they will Eventually eat their own it's the fact That they've itself lost the structure Against which they at least had the Liberty to be on The Fringe of right and So that's not to say that we shouldn't Have you know conversations for you know Disabled people or whatever in the in The you know American Disabilities Act Context that's what comes up in a Political context there's a there's a Whole discussion to be had about how we Deal with this problem of The Fringe how We deal with accommodation against the Backdrop of ideals and and I want to be Really clear I I don't dismiss that Conversation in fact I think that should Be the product of dialectic I think Free Speech can actually be a mechanism for Sorting out those kinds of questions and I don't reject their importance but I Think that what's happened right now is The obsession with The Fringe has has Eviscerated the ideal itself which Leaves both those who espouse the ideals

And even those who identified themselves As one time being a member of a fringe All worse off in the end and that's Exactly where we are and that's a due to Failure of the conservative movement It's a failure of the conservative Movement see we can blame the people on The Fringe for you know getting us there They were just the agents and the pawns Who moved it but it's the it's the role Of the conservative movement to keep That structure intact and I think the Absence of to make a case for it and to Make a case for it and so and so so then Then what happens in the evolution of Time now right so now we're in a moment Where The discussion that you and I have Already are talking about that ship has Sailed the structure itself is gone what Does that require that's what makes this So difficult and I think that in some Ways you've made a more powerful Philosophical case for my candidacy that In my first week I have yet to do yet Which is that it requires defying the Odds of having somebody who is both Conscientious conscientious conservative As you noted but who has the capacity For being Visionary in having the vision Of recreating that structure that solar System around which the the rest of the Fringes can orbit And that's inherently an unlikelihood

But by you said by the psychological Nature of creativity and Conscientiousness those are not supposed To coincide that's what sets a really High bar it's also what calls me into This race because it is what our moment Demands because we're not starting from Neutral territory we're starting from The state of of you know entropic chaos That you highlight desert in the desert Not we're not so we're starting from Being lost in the desert and so thank You because you have in a philosophical In a deeply philosophically grounded way Made the case for my candidacy and why I Am doing this whether I will not do I Will deliver or not the next year and a Half remains to be told but that's at Least the challenge I'm setting out to Take on and and thank you for laying That out well with this group that I've Been working with in London we've also Set forward a couple of other Propositions too which is that if your Policy requires compulsion or Force it's At least sub-optimal and so we're trying To play an Invitational game and so you Could imagine that on the Visionary Horizon your goal as if Visionary is to Produce an image that's so compelling That people of their own free Accord say Yeah you know I'd be willing to Sacrifice to that end yes yes willing to Sacrifice it I I love the way you frame

That because because you can you can Make a sacrifice if you know what you Are sacrificing for actually so this was A big part of my upbringing right in Immigrant parents from India Hindu Tradition came to this country Part and parcel of parenting part and Parcel of growing up as a kid in that Household the idea of sacrifice was Woven into my upbringing right Grandparents who lived in the house Because it was their duty to take care Of their parents because that was just Familial sacrifice needed to be made Sacrifices needed to be made to raise my Brother and I to have the academic Achievements that we did in the Education that didn't happen in a vacuum It happened on the back of parents who Actually said there's more to life than Just following your latest Self-indulgence but these yeah these Things can be done if you know what You're sacrificing for I draw that as analogy to some of my Policy agenda this is a harder sell but I think it's true too in the United States today needs to I've made the case Declare independence from China that's a Whole separate geopolitical discussion We can have why I think that's important Why I think there's an opportunity but Also been even in week one very clear This will involve some measure of

Sacrifice in fact if there's some Resistance I'm getting to the Declaration of Independence proposition Of China it's actually coming from some Republicans who are unwilling to make That sacrifice who have become so Addicted to buying cheap stuff but again I say that we can make those sacrifices If we know what we are sacrificing for And so this idea of sacrifice I think is Fundamental to this question of identity Once you're grounded in identity once You're grounded in who you are and what You might be willing to make a sacrifice For it's almost a litmus test for Identity if you have nothing that you're Willing to make a sacrifice for it means You have no identity right and so that's A great framing of it Looking for an all-in-one e-commerce Platform that can help you easily set up And grow your business online look no Further than Shopify with Shopify you Can quickly and easily build your own Online store manage your inventory and Accept payments from customers plus Shopify offers a range of customizable Themes and templates to choose from so You can create a professional looking Store without any design experience it Even helps integrate with other popular Tools to help you sell across social Media marketplaces like Tick Tock Facebook and Instagram with shopify's 24

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Whim that's associated with that but That's not really Freedom what that is Is subjection to the rule by impulsive Whims exactly you see as characterizing Chill Why sacrifice that and the answer is Because it isn't a coherent or communal Medium to long-term solution the reason You sacrifice the whims of childhood That polytheistic state of motivational Possession that characterizes childhood The reason you sacrifice that to an Integrated maturity is because the Integrated maturity a constitutes an Identity that will protect you from Anxiety and provide you with hope but Also unifies you across time and lays The preconditions for your social Integration and there's nothing about That that's arbitrary and so the Question isn't who is going to rule you No I want no one to rule how can I set My life up so no one can rule me the Question is what is it that I'm going to Work towards allowing to rule me and It's either going to be my whims Which means I'm subject to them or it's Going to be some higher order state of Integration that requires sacrifice and Then that ties into this whole Hierarchical identity you know you Sacrifice your whims to your partner you And your partner sacrifice your whims to Your children yes your family sacrifices

Its whims to the community and all of That now you want that to be done Harmoniously and you want it to be done Voluntary autonomously voluntarily Exactly yes exactly yeah so so so so we Had to create that sense of identity and Purpose that makes us voluntarily opt Into that nested identity state right There is there's a sacrifice for Marriage exactly right there is a Sacrifice to entering a marriage it's a Sacrifice for making there's a sacrifice To having children that's a sacrifice Worth making there is a sacrifice to Being a citizen of a Nation I'm not a Global citizen just a global I'm a Citizen of a Nation there's a sacrifice Worth making we can make these Sacrifices if we know what's worth Sacrificing for that's the missing what I call them the conservative movement to Borrow from David Hume David Hume had This famous chapter in in uh in sort of His his uh he was an empiricist but one Of the paradoxes in his theory of Empiricism was what he called the Missing shade of blue he could say what The shade of blue was without having Ever having seen it that was a challenge To his theory of empiricism anyway I Borrowed that I call it the missing Shade of red in the conservative Movement is this idea of the Revival of Duty and embracing Duty as a

Precondition for freedom but it's Duty That we actually autonomously opt into By way of our free choice and our Free Will these things are not incompatible They're not contradictory they sound Contract not at all they're not police They're sort of mutually required the Other thing I was just going to say About kids because I think this is one Where I wasn't sure if you were going to Disagree with me on this but actually Having heard you I suspect that you Don't I've gotten this actually a lot on The road I was in Iowa New Hampshire Last week A lot of distinction between this idea Of freedom and autonomy amongst adults Versus in children so you know one of The things that I've said that rankles I Think a lot of the you know libertarian Leading you know conservatives or Whatever and I used to call myself a Libertarian for a bunch of reasons I'm Not anymore But you know is this idea that children Are different than adults okay and so That period you talked about between 16 And 21. I mean let's I'll just even take The the easier end of the spectrum Forget 21 just say 16. If you can't use an addictive cigarette By the age of 18 or drink a an addictive Sip of alcohol by the age of 21. why is It that you're allowed to use an

Addictive social media product as a Pre-teen either I mean that at the very Least is an inconsistency in the way we Treat this now I I fully agree with you That all else equal the path to getting To this ideal the structure of Ideal That we discussed before Ought to be a path that does not involve Coercion or impinging on Free Will it is Uh you you phrased it very politely it Would be sub-optimal I believe is the Word you used I think that that is the Most gracious way of of putting that I Think it should be avoided is the way I Would say it as a as a prospective Policy maker and leader of the country But I don't apply the same rules of the Road as it applies to children because None of us believe that children Actually uh you know children actually Should be treated as the same autonomous Agents that they ought to be on the Other side of entering adulthood now That gets into questions of parenting Etc which we can get into but be that as It may I I buy into this I buy into this Uh vision of Structure as necessary in a precondition For experience of freedom but the path To getting there can't involve coercion I'm with you all the way so so in The Exodus story When God Charges Moses with standing up to the

Pharaoh He tells Moses to tell he tells Moses to Tell the Pharaoh something very specific And he has him repeat it 10 times in Case you didn't notice right it's Repeated 10 times in the story nine or Ten times he tells Moses to let my People go of course a very famous phrase But that's not the phrase the phrase is Let my people go So that they may worship or celebrate me In the wilderness in the desert and so What it does is it sets up not freedom But ordered freedom And so then you might ask yourself well What constitutes ordered Freedom well a Game is ordered Freedom a voluntary game Is ordered freedom because you have a Large landscape of choice but it's Dependent on principles right those are The rules of the game and a game is a Good analogy because people play games Voluntarily And they want to play them and they Enjoy them and so if you said something Like if you set up social structure up With a game like uh substructure then People voluntarily hop aboard now the Free market responds to the problem of The margins is to produce a plethora of Games And so that you might be a margin you Might be marginal in one game or almost All games but there may be some game

That you'll be Central because of your Temperamental advantages and I think you Can see that in the gay community for Example especially among male Homosexuals because the entertainment Industry especially on the on that on The more explicitly cultural end is Dominated by male by gay men and there's A reason for that as far as I'm Concerned because male homosexuality is Associated with heightened levels of Creativity and so there it there's a Margin there and the margin is well if You're creative you're not going to be Traditional it's going to be hard for You to abide by the ideal but there's a Niche for you on the cultural Transformation front and so a free Market solution to Um the problem of marginalization is Something like that the offering of a True diversity it's like yeah you're Only five foot two so you can't play Basketball you know but you might be a Damn good jockey exactly we have enough Games exactly exactly that and then People can trade on their idiosyncrasies And you see this is an argument that Free market types haven't made to the Diversity types it's like well the Reason you want a free market is to Provide a diverse number of games so the Marginalized can find a center diversity In our approach to diversity Itself by

The way and I think you see the same Thing I mean so I've been trying I don't Know that I've succeeded over the last Several years but I've been trying to Exactly preach that to the diversity Crowd where even if you think about Institutional purpose right you were Talking about the level of individuals In the marginalized side and so I agree With that that's one form of diverse Approaches to diversity here's a Different approach to diverse approaches To diversity is diversity of Institutional purpose that even Different companies let's just take it In the realm of companies that's the World I've lived in right Corporate America and capital markets fine each Company ought to have a unique purpose And what is the problem with using a Common three-letter acronym it's funny How these things always come in three Letter acronyms but from ESG to Dei to CSR to you know CCP I joke around yeah Yeah exactly CCP and Wes are some of the Ones lurking behind the scenes but the Problem with these you know ESG or Dei Three-letter acronyms is what are they Effectively saying they're saying that No no you can't have your own Distinctive purpose everyone's purpose Must be common to advance environmental Social and governance goals diversity Equity and inclusion goals that's a

Denial of diversity right it rejects Exactly it's a lurking tyranny versus if You're really pro-diversity you should Have that fall out of the structure that You and I discussed right what is your Institutional purpose if you run an Institution you have one question why do We exist Period have a good answer to that Question and then say what type of Diversity you espouse that's really just In service of advancing that Institutional purpose different types of Institutions should want different kinds Of diversity and and they should be Transparent about what types of Diversity they don't want I'll actually Give you one example that I use that's Sort of funny you know at times is I'm a Vegetarian okay I don't eat meat because I believe it is in my tradition morally Wrong to kill animals solely for Culinary pleasure there are conditions In which it would be fine to do it but If it's just for my culinary pleasure I'd rather not do it I respect other People's right to and and freedom to go In a different direction but Take the example of me working at a Steakhouse okay I would not make for a good employee at A steakhouse even if I would deliver the Ever-prized form of diversity of thought See people sometimes they're loose in

Terms of my diversity of thought instead Of diversity of appearance yeah yeah I'm In favor of diversity of thought over Diversity of appearance too but even Diversity of thought is too low Resolution but that's a diverse thought But a steakhouse still shouldn't want to Employ me because that's not the kind of Diversity of thought you should want if Your focus is on delivering excellent Stake to a customer because the kind of Diversity you want there should be in Service of your purpose and so I think This this revival of the idea of purpose Itself gives meaning to diversity itself And that's whether that's true in a Company context or a national context That's kind of my approach to to the Diversity discussion that we've we've Managed to obsess over There's a couple of places we can go With that so one of the things you're Pointing out and it's in keeping with This Berkey and notion of subsidiarity That has its Origins and this Exodus Narrative by the way is that There's going to be a variety of Institutions at each level of the Hierarchy so you could imagine there's a Variety of forms of couples you know There's going to be some couples where The where the woman is the primary Breadwinner for example there's going to Be some couples where the man is and and

That's fine you you want the commonality Of the coupling but you want the Diversity of possibilities within that Framework and then the same at the level Of family there's going to be some Families with 10 kids there's going to Be some families with one there's going To be Blended families but that's that Still circles around the core of family So you have order but you have diversity At each of the levels of order and then You also have the recognition that each Of those levels has its own Domain of Of sacred responsibility Now one of the things I've noticed you Could try this out for yourself if You're curious about it but you know I've gone to 400 cities in the last four Years lecturing about the sorts of Things that we're talking about today And there's one point I make that always Brings the audience no matter where it Is to a dead silence like absolutely pin Drop dead silence and here's the Argument so You need a sustaining meaning in your Life Now what does sustaining mean It means it will sustain you through Catastrophe so it'll sustain you through Pain and Terror Now that can't be happiness Because happiness is absent in

Conditions of pain and Terror so it Can't be that So what is it well I drew in my clinical It experience to answer that question Well what do people have when things When they're truly in the desert when They're abandoned and lost and in pain Well they have the structure around them That they'd made sacrifices to produce They have their partner They have their you know their their Wife or their husband they have their Children and their parents and their and Their siblings they have their friends They have their Community they have this Hierarchy of social structure around Them that can sustain them if they made The proper sacrifices and then the Question is well what is the nature of The sacrifice that's necessary to make Those bonds and the answer is well That's the adoption of voluntary Responsibility and so once you know this Is something conservatives haven't ever Made explicit The meaning that sustains you in tragedy Is to be found through the voluntary Adoption of responsibility And so you can tell young people that It's you can tell young people that you Say they say well why should I grow up I Can just do whatever I want whenever I Want and that's especially true if they Happen to be wealthy and privileged and

The answer is well if you expend all That capital on Hedonism as soon as the Storms come you're Shipwrecked Absolutely there'll be nothing left of You because there's no Hedonism in hell And what you have there is whatever You've built responsibly and there's Meaning in that and people understand That immediately and it's part of this Alternative Vision to this fractured Hedonism that everyone is celebrating Now let me ask you a question about that Um because I think this is really Interesting I mean And I care about delivering this Solution right so I want to I want to Get to the heart of it There's two possibilities there and the Answer might be both but I want to get a Sense for which one You meant Um one is that that sustained meaning is That what you said sustain purpose me Yeah the sustaining meaning yeah it'll Sustain you across time right sustaining Meaning that that can pre-exist and be Uh resilient across catastrophe in a way That this this superficial idea of Happiness tradition does that tradition Can be grounded if you're embedded in a Tradition right you bet right but There's there's a version of what you Described which also makes me think About a very different direction here

Which is that Also form that in response To catastrophe two and so I think I Think much of the social structure that We have created in absence of that Purpose and vacuum I mean this might be A cycles of history thing less about Psychology and more just about the Nature of History here is that we create The conditions For that catastrophe whatever it might Be and it might be that catastrophe Itself may have to be the Catalyst for Rediscovering what that sustained Meaning was across Across those circumstances in the future Be that economic catastrophe I think That we're due for economic tough times In part for a lot of the difficult Decisions we've made over the last 10 Years amidst this vacuum of purpose I Think China may do this favor favor at Using air quotes for the United States But but which of those was the sense in Which you meant it right in a vacuum in First principles developing that to be Resilient across time or are you also You know subconsciously making some kind Of empirical prediction here that in Absence of this we're going to have to Would have this as a response at least That will cause us to adapt We'll be right back first we wanted to Give you a sneak peek at Jordan's new

Documentary logos and literacy I was very much struck by how how the Translation of the biblical writings Jump started the development of literacy Across the entire world illiteracy was The norm the pastor's home was the first School and every morning it would begin With singing the Christian faith is a Singing religion probably 80 percent of Scripps memorization today exists only Because of what is sung this is amazing Here we have a Gutenberg Bible printed On the Press of Johann Cooper science And religion are opposing forces in the World but historically that has not been The case now the book is available to Everyone from Shakespeare to modern Education and mid And science to to civilization itself it Is the most influential book in all of History and hopefully people can walk Away with at least a sense of that I would say I would say that you don't Have to think except when you're failing Because the purpose of thinking is to Calculate a new trajectory and if the Trajectory you're you're pursuing is Producing the desired results then your Theory is intact well then the question Emerges which is well how much failure Is necessary to make you think and That's actually a moral question and That's a question of willful blindness You know if you're awake and alert and

If you're humble in the classic virtuous Sense you're always trying to figure out Where you're insufficient and to rectify That right in many Christian prayers the Jesus prayer for example is a reminder That the Orthodox cite that continually Chant out continually is a reminder that You're insufficient in your current form And you should be looking for what would Rectify you that's the practice of Humility and the advantage to that Practice is that you can make micro Repairs instead of staying stubborn Until the apocalypse happens and then Collapsing now in the in the story of Moses what happens to the Pharaoh who's A tyrant is that the crisis emerge and Then magnify right they just get worse And worse and worse and worse and he Utterly failed to respond and the Consequence of that is that his entire Societies is devastated the firstborn Are all killed and the Red Sea floods And destroys the uh the what the Military might of the Egyptian Empire And so so the the answer to your Question is Um What's the relationship between failure And and a return to Abiding and sustaining values and the Answer is well it depends on how Stiff-necked you are exactly Stiff-necked enough well if you're

Stiff-necked enough and this is no joke And I mean this if you're stiff-necked Enough then you face the apocalypse And we're toying with that at the moment On like that's exactly where we are That's exactly where we are and I think That I think that In certain sense my goal in this journey Is to make sure that that doesn't have To be the the Catalyst for deliverance Okay well what could that be nice Because if it's not going to be somebody Who delivers a vision but from a from a Actually conservatively grounded Perspective with the conscious justice Of a conservative that still brings a Creativity a vision to this Well then it may gonna it may have to be Done by force by way of Apocalypse Anyway and you know in the modern sense Of that word we're going to have to be Forced to learn the lesson that we Couldn't learn ourselves in the first Place I don't think we're quite there Yet and I do think we have a window to Get this right which is the entire Premise of I mean you have verbalized Using words what I feel in my in my Bones in my heart that compels me to Want to do this Better than I have at any point in the Last week so I've watched Watched many people on the Democrat side Many people on the Republican side and

In different countries as well and this Is what I see happening consistently So neophytes entered the political Arena Now they may have been people who like You have had a pretty stellar career and Have racked up enough successes so that They can present themselves as credible Candidates and you know two thumbs up For that I I think that's a necessary Precondition but they get intimidated in The new Arena because the stakes are Super high and they don't have a lot of Experience and so what they end up doing Is they end up hiring communication Teams and there are experts at political Communication and they usually involve Pollsters for example and speech writers People who will help you craft your Message and then what I see happening And this is inevitable this is the Inevitable consequence is that the Person running loses their voice and They often lose the election too by the Way they lose their voice and the Election now not always sometimes they Win but they still lose their voice So and one of the things that's emerged Is the opportunity on the political Landscape to do what you and I are doing Right now Which is really different you know for 40 years politicians in some sense had To craft their message because they had To pass it through the narrow bandwidth

Of Legacy Media right and so they'd had To compress things into a 30-second Sound they were forced to right yeah Right right but now Now you have the opportunity to just say What you think And if you just say what you think well First of all if you're wrong you'll Learn that's useful and the other thing Is is that people are going to respond Positively to that because they're Desperate for truth now you can tell That because Trump was successful now I'm not trying to put Trump out you know On some pedestal up on some pedestal is The world's greatest truth teller but I Would say that one of the things Trump Did was speak without Without you could say without Forethought but that isn't without Inhibition without inhibition yes yeah He basically for for all of his flaws he Did he he struck especially the working Class as genuine because he was willing To say what he thought and what was cool About that was that he won and so I'm Really interested in your candidacy you Know because you're coming in well from Left Field you know you're going to Definitely be a dark horse candidate It's very interesting like God only Knows how that'll play out but one of The advantages that I think you have Apart from your financial background and

The fact that you're alert to the Dangers of ESG tyranny and so forth Which is a non-trivial example is that You can really afford to take the risk You know how to use the new media and That's a deadly advantage and also you Know your your candidacy is sufficiently Unlikely so that there's no reason for You to do things in a conventional Manner because conventionally you should Just lose you're not well enough known Right you don't have enough of a Political apparatus I don't have a Machine but you know right so actually That could be a huge Advantage you know One of the pieces of help I'll ask for You is keep me honest through this whole Thing because that's where I'm starting Off I can imagine that there's a lot of People who Embark with that vision and Then just become stultified by the Suffocating forces around them but I'll Tell you I'll tell you a couple rules of The road that I've I've you know tied my Hands to the Mast to make this easy for Me in a good way is no one's going to Write another speech for me in fact even When I get speeches I don't write my own Speeches I just say what's on my mind I Don't use a teleprompter in fact a fun I Haven't I haven't said this yet a fun Little challenge I was thinking about Issuing to the entire Republican field Maybe I'll just do it right now is don't

Have anyone write your speeches and Don't use a teleprompter I'll make that Commitment why doesn't the whole field Make that commitment no teleprompter I Speak from the heart get it out there And you know one of the things that We're going to do is I've learned pretty Early on what you're supposed to do if You're running for president is you get Trained behind closed doors and then People train you and prep you with your Talk points and you come on put on this Nice suit and tie and then you you Project to the world how much you know About words and terms that you just Learned 10 minutes ago why that instead Actually what I've said is and I think We're actually going to do this I mean Over the objections of of good advice is All of my policy briefings all of my Education I mean there's a lot that Anybody myself included for sure is Gonna have to learn to Be an Effective President of the United States that's a Big part of the next year and a half and I I am running to run I'm not running First to make a point I'm running Because I believe seeing this all the Way through is my Max is the ticket to Drive maximal positive change that's Going to require a lot of learning we're Just going to tape them in forums like This and we'll put it out to the Internet you know what if that allows

People to discover that I was not Omniscient great I am not God you know I Was on a radio interview yesterday where Somebody asked me about some term in in U.S military history that I should know Well I didn't know it I told him that But I said I'm also a fast study and Committed to learning which I think he Took in a good way and I meant it so I Just think that I think that More Honesty will go a long way I think This race will be better off if none of Us read speeches that other people wrote For us if none of us even use a Teleprompter stick into some script but Speak from the heart that's what I'm Committed to doing I hope that keeps me Honest I I have a lot to learn and not Only am I going to learn it we'll open Source it everybody can learn along with Me that's one of the ways we're going to Do this thing starting about next month Yeah Well if you if you if you use prepared Speech you don't have faith in your Heart yeah you know you don't have faith That you can respond to the moment in Accordance with your principles in a Dynamic manner that will involve the Audience and if you can't do that a you Shouldn't lead and B you should learn Because you can do that you can learn to Do that and and people do respond to That much better like I've experimented

With this on YouTube because now and Then I'm trying to think through Something really difficult you know and I'll write it out because you can make a More coherent argument in writing and a Denser argument but then I've tried to Read it on YouTube you know and it Doesn't work It doesn't work like it works okay you Know what I mean it's not a failure but It's not a success the last thing I did This was so this is a hybrid that's Worth experimenting with so I wrote this Uh statement of vision for this Enterprise I described the arc Enterprise and uh I wanted to share it With people so I was going to read it But I knew that reading wasn't very Compelling because it didn't have that Spontaneity that reveals the heart let's Say so what I did was I read like two Sentences and then commented on it and Then read another Tuesday Yeah that really worked because you see It enables usually well it enables you To to have your talking points at hand You know because I'm going to try that Can you remember but it was it was very Effective for me and it kept the Spontaneity you know and so and you Gotta you can't get a plan for that you Just got but I think you have to you Have to in some ways be disciplined About making sure that you don't just

Revert to the Natural Norm of just Sticking to what you need to say and you Know what you're right I think there is Something about Legacy Media that that Sort of forces that but I don't like Just blaming Legacy Media too because I I go on a lot of TV hits as well I don't Think you have to do it that way either And in a certain way I think that the Last best chance for Reviving Legacy Media is if the people who go on it Start behave stop behaving like the Cartoons that Legacy Media created for The last 30 years this could actually be The source of saving Legacy Media itself Just because you're given three to five Minutes doesn't mean that you actually Have to stick to those talking points Try doing it this way too that's what I Try to do when I go on television as Well but anyway this is this is good Much more effective I mean maybe it's Effective and maybe it's not right maybe It's we'll find out this is an Experiment for me but here's what I'll Say even if even if you were even if you Were more likely to win the other way You have your soul sucked out of you Right you're just a hollowed out husk of Yourself so if the point of winning was To go sit in the white house then okay That's one thing if the points actually Describe a Revival you're not going to Do that even from the White House if

You're just a holiday Alaska yourself I Don't take I don't think there is any Evidence that you're more likely to win Doing it the conventional handled poll Driven media establishment craft a Persona way I think I looked at the Empirical evidence I can't see a shred Of evidence there's hardly any evidence That election spending is positively Associated with with Victory good it's Not there's glad there's no evidence in Relationship to incumbents incumbent Spending is completely irrelevant to Electoral outcome there's some minor Evidence on the Challenger front that More spending makes the difference but You can't tell if that's because of the Spending or because the more popular Candidates are more likely to raise Money So and you know if you look at someone Like Joe Rogan Rogan's very interesting Figure eight because he's basically Created a whole media Empire out of Nothing he still has nothing he has he Has his producer awesome affects all his Own guests well and all Rogan does is Exposes ignorance Because all he does is ask stupid Questions you know and I love it I don't Know the guy but but I'd love to meet Him some point you know he seems like He's on to something but I think imagine Taking that spirit

To actually running a presidential and Political campaign that's what this is Going to be and so maybe it's I mean I'm I'm certainly betting it's a formula for Success I wouldn't be doing this if I Didn't think so but I'd rather stay true To who I am and actually putting that on Full display and being open about Learning through the process and open Sourcing that then trying to do this in Some way that projects some image of Some omniscient guy which is exactly What the political consultant class Wants to do right they want to say Absolutely your position They want to project the image of a Leader but who cares if that leader Doesn't actually exist and so that's how We're going to do this and and you know A year and a half from now we'll find Out whether it was the electorally Successful strategy or not but it is the Personally for me it's the only way that I'm going to be able to do this and so And so it'll be a fun it'll be a fun Test case to see this all the way Through Well I would say psychologically There is no other Pathway to success Then Something approximating abiding in the Truth Because the truth puts reality within You and behind you and so that doesn't

Mean that that will result in proximal Success at the moment Right and that's another sacrifice that Has to be made like you know you don't Know in some Cosmic sense whether it's Time for you to be president apparently It's time for you to run But I would say psychologically speaking That if you stay true to your own voice And you're very diligent in that and you Make the sacrifices necessary to make That possible that your candidacy will Be a success regardless of the outcome And you might think well that's kind of Paradoxical it's like look no it's not Because for example you might you might Tilt the discussion of the election in a Direction that's extremely good for the Country and that could be completely Independent of whether or not you win The presidency in fact you might even do That more effectively by running a Campaign that wouldn't be you know Crafted this time to put you in the Optimal political position and I've seen This with other political leaders you Know like I talked to Netanyahu a while Back and he really risked his political Skin and his party's political skin to Bring in necessary economic reform in Israel and that crashed his party and Him for like a decade But he's back and Israel is thriving on The economic front so you don't know not

Crafting it at all I think I think not Crafting is exactly the way to go and Maybe that's my bet is that's going to Be what successfully puts me in the White House in 2024 but I don't Fetishize that and then there's the Inverse of this too Dr Peterson which is You could craft it to win and check the Box of winning the presidency but just Because you said the other way doesn't Necessarily mean you lose this other way Doesn't necessarily mean you even win Even if you actually numerically win the Election and sit in the White House who Cares if the person's sitting there is Just a stuffed suit that certainly was Knew how to craft how to win without Actually having something of substance Left on the inside of who occupies that Stuff suit so so it goes in both ways Actually I think that's absolutely I Think that's an almost inevitable Consequence like I saw this with faculty Members continually So here's part of the reason the Universities are so ruined Okay so graduate student says to himself I can't really say or write what I think No an undergraduate says I can't really Say what I write or say or write what I Think I have to get my grade so he Compromises what he says and thinks and Then he's a graduate student he thinks Well now I'm a little higher up in the

Hierarchy but I'm still not a professor So I can't really say or write what I Think and then he's an assistant Professor and he says well I haven't got 10 years so I better keep my mouth shut And then he's an associate with tenure And he says well I'm not a full Professor finally when I become a full Professor I'll be able to say what I and Write what I think and then he's 35 or 40 and for 25 years he's practiced Deception and he doesn't have a word of Truth left to utter and that happens to Political figures all the time and That's how to really defeat totally true And you know what I think that that's The real that's what winning and losing Really ought to be defined as and then We're making this empirical bet you Pointed out to Donald Trump in 2015. I Think empirically You know my my bet is where yours is Where that in this moment probably is The more electorally successful strategy Anyway but I'm less sure of that that I Am sure that this is how I'm gonna do it Because that's what's in my control and And that's how I would love to keep I Would love to keep talking to you I mean I've been really fortunate over the last Six years say because I've had a group Of family members and friends around me Who have their own independent Viewpoints and who want nothing from me

Who constantly are interacting with me And making sure that I'm not you know Wandering off the path in some manner That's untoward you know and there's Been some pretty intense discussions About that at multiple times but it is Very useful to have people around you Who you know who you talk through your Strategy the one you just laid out say Look guys I'd like you to keep an eye on Me and if you think I'm striking some False notes or I'm starting to be you Know the great wonderful laws the Projection of the leader that you know You can Reign me in a bit it and you Know if you do put that goal to keep Control of your tongue first and Foremost in mind then and then you have People who can reflect that back to you You know you can stay on the proper Track and I think the idea of of not Letting people I just can't believe Political figures have other people Write their speeches it's like I mean They do those people craft your thoughts I know it's either it's utterly insane It's nothing they'll say I'll Channel Your thoughts but you know as as you Know whoever said it like arms the Channel through which thought flows Right my English my 11th grade English Teacher basically said that right if you Can't write it down yourself you Probably don't know what you wanted to

Actually say but anyway here's an ask it Off for you I mean honestly honest to God and you're you know the program Etc You do Call me back on here and call me out or Don't call me back out here and comment Keep me honest right if you're if you're Seeing a deviation from this okay anyone In my shoes deserves to be called out And and roasted over it because that's What keeps us honest Okay well let's do this this will be an Interesting thing to do in terms of what I can bring to my audiences anyways I Mean you're going to enter this Fray Full flat out for the next year and a Half why don't we check in about every Three months or so and we can play that By ear and you can just provide us with An update you know that's right you can Walk everybody through the whole Experience and we can talk over these Issues continually and you call me out Whether you think I'm actually staying True to what I what I'm setting out to See this conversation is Ground Zero Let's do this every few months and then And I'll give you my honest take of how I think things are going and and if you See me becoming what the thing that I'm Telling you I'm I'm entering this to Shake up and change call it out because Then we might as well call it quits on The whole thing there's no point to the

Whole thing even if I'm doing better in The polling but I'm becoming some some Hollowed out husk of myself let's just Call it a day and move on because that's Not really what this whole Enterprise Was about I'd love it I'll take you up On that okay okay good well I'll keep an Eye out and I'll try to ask you the most Difficult questions I can ask that are Real questions and that are fair you Know and so that that's always the Grounds for a good discussion we managed That today it looks like we could do This because we did this with Michaela On Michaela's show a while back and it Was well and today I thought went Extremely well it zipped by and we Covered all are we already done I Thought are you kidding me I thought We're just getting warmed up here no We're already done an hour and 36 Minutes Okay okay all right Preamble okay yeah okay all right okay It's a good place to wrap up good well For everybody who's watching and Listening thank you for your time and Attention and I'm going to move with the Event over to the Daily wire plus Platform we're going to go through some Autobiographical background and I'm very Interested always in investigating to Find out how people's interests made Themselves manifest in their life in the

Problems that grip them and the Opportunities that offered themselves to Them so we'll continue that conversation For half an hour on the daily wear plus Front and so Um and so you can turn to that if you Want to follow up on the discussion VA Thank you very much today for agreeing To talk to me today and uh Congratulations on your candidacy it's a It's a hell of a thing to undertake and Uh you're going to be in for quite the Roller coaster ride for the next 18 Months I mean I know you're familiar With that sort of thing already and so I Look forward to talking to you again and To those of you who are watching and Listening thank you for your time and Attention to the film crew here in Calgary I'm still in Calgary thank you For your time today and your uh your uh Your technological prowess and we'll Turn it over to the Daily Word plus and Ciao everybody Hello everyone I would encourage you to Continue listening to my conversation With my guest on

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