The End of the Tent Cities | Minister Jason Nixon | EP 432

Jordan Peterson sits down with Alberta’s Minister of Seniors, Community, and Social Services, Jason Nixon. They discuss the dire problems created by unregulated homeless encampments, the onset of both indigenous and foreign gangs and cartels, and the two schools of thought on how to approach drug abuse—one that enables “safe” usage, where the other focuses on real addiction recovery.

Jason Nixon is Alberta’s Minister of Seniors, Community and Social Services. As minister, he is responsible for his province’s policies on housing, homelessness, and government benefits for vulnerable people. He previously served as Leader of the Opposition, Minister of Environment and Parks and Minister of Finance and President of Treasury Board in the province of Alberta.

This episode was recorded on February 8th, 2024

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– Chapters –

(0:00) Tour update 2024
(0:40) Coming up
(1:10) Intro
(3:34) The current state of Alberta’s homelessness crisis
(7:24) Why and when the tent cities populated
(11:36) This is primarily a drug addiction and enabling problem
(17:38) The occurrence of gangs and an organized crime subculture
(21:05) Where are the drugs coming from?
(25:06) Decriminalization, drug policy, enabling versus recovery
(32:10) Alberta’s government is dedicated to this goal
(34:57) The theft of public spaces for tent cities
(38:26) The ongoing municipal standoff
(45:01) When problems overlap, navigating anti-social repeat offenders for effective treatment
(55:22) The tent city experience, displacement and dealing with police
(57:44) Managing treatment centers, weeding out potential corruption and crime
(1:02:36) Getting past present distress to treat core problems
(1:14:27) Dr. Joan McCord, unintended consequences, tracking progress
(1:21:03) When Jordan Peterson worked for Alberta’s social services department
(1:24:25) How public services departments track progress and assess cost
(1:26:51) Tightening restrictions on “gender affirming care”

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Hello everyone I'm pleased to announce My new tour for 2024 beginning in early February and running through June Tammy And I an assortment of special guests Are going to visit 51 cities in the US You can find out more information about This on my website Jordanbpeterson.com as well as accessing All relevant ticketing information I'm Going to use the tour to walk through Some of the ideas I've been working on My forthcoming book out November 2024 we Who wrestle with God I'm looking forward To this I'm thrilled to be able to do it Again and I'll be pleased to see all of You again soon Bye-bye you know the biggest protesters Are not people staying inside the tent Cities they're often members of the Official opposition our province which Is the NDP which is a Socialist Party Within our Province but the vulnerable People in general uh have been pretty Excited once they realized what Opportunities they have I mean do you Want my Approach which is to reach in Send a warm bus load everybody up bring Them to a nice warm facility give them Shower foods and access to Medical Resources or to be left inside a tent Freezing to death taking poison [Music] Right hi everyone I had the opportunity Today to speak with Mr Jason Nixon he's

Minister of seniors community and Social Services in Alberta why did I want to talk to him Well the albertans under Danielle Smith Have taken a very forthright stance re Recently for example against the trans Butchery and deceit that increasingly Characterizes the Western world but more They've also taken forthright action in Relationship to the springing up of all These so-called tent cities that now Blight the landscape throughout North America and elsewhere and uh they Haven't done that in a heavy-handed and Punitive way they've done that in a very Intelligent and thoughtful way they've Removed 200 of approximately 300 cities Already in Alberta and really began the Enterprise only in December and I think What's happening in Alberta I'm hoping What's happening in Alberta could be a Model for what could happen in Jurisdictions like North America wide And so that's why Ed to do this podcast And with Mr Nixon he has very Interesting history his uh his father Had lived on the street as as an addict And alcoholic and was rehabilitated uh Relatively young in his life and then Spent the rest of his life helping Homeless and addicted people and Jason Grew up in that environment he grew up Surrounded by homeless people even in His own house and uh so this is a man

Who's actually walked the walk and he Knows what he's doing by all appearances That's what we're all praying and so we Walk through his personal experience and Also uh the details all of the details Or as many as we could manage with Regards to what's happening in Alberta Cleaning up the tent cities so to speak And rehabilitating the people who for One reason or another were unfortunate Enough or badly aimed enough to end up There so it's a Hopeful dialogue and I'm hoping that What what's happening in Alberta could Be a model for for the Western World so Join Us well thank you for sitting down with Me and with all my guests today um I'm Very interested as you know in what What's going on in Alberta broadly but The initial Focus for our conversation Is going to be what steps you are taking Within the confines of Premier Daniel Smith's government to deal with the So-called Tent City epidemic problem Social phenomenon That's evident all over North America And And and and is new and surprising so Tell me what the situation is in Alberta And also maybe how we got There well I think I'll start with how We got there you know particularly our Capital city in our province which is

Emon and we we started to see a real Significant situation when it came to Tent cities some people in our Communities will call them encampments Uh but where we were seeing hundreds of Encampments across the city of Emon uh With hundreds of structures within those Those tent cities and really a desire Frankly by the city of Emon uh to Embrace those encampments in some way And when I say the city I'm referring to The municipality to to some members of The government uh who ultimately have You know bylaw control and have the Responsibility to keep the the city Clean we certainly have some overlap Responsibility about caring for the poor And dealing with some of the health Issues that are involved of course but In general usually the city is who deals With it and uh over time we just saw These encampments get bigger and bigger And more and more problems come uh as a Result of that and so the chief of Police from Emon uh came and saw our Government uh and the and our Premier For your International viewer and American viewers as like a governor and Came in and laid out for us what they Were seeing in those encampments and I Have to tell you it was pretty alarming It was shocking Uh you know we were hearing stories About underage girls for example being

Sexually exploited inside those Encampments they showed significant Evidence of the gangs operating inside These encampments and charging people to Even use the tents uh and to be able to Access resources like water fountains or Other things that would be in the area The police were fing were pulling out of Those encampments weapons that were uh Quite alarming obviously they were Seeing lots of stolen goods uh finding Dead bodies and most horrifying because Of course our our country is very cold They were seeing people that lost their Lives as a result of burning to death in These tents because they were trying to Heat them with propane and different Type of mechanisms to try to stay warm And survive in the elements here and so In some of those pictures we could not Even release to the media it was just That shocking what was taking place and So we we got clear instructions from our Premier uh to get to work uh and to come Up with a new plan when it came to those Encampments which we got to work on Right away and this happened just before Christmas this year so just a few weeks Ago uh and as a result of that we Launched immediately a task force led by My ministri real department on Social Services side but with support of a Variety of departments uh we put Together what we've called the

Navigation Center so that's a structure Within the city of amiton where we were Able to bring all of the services Together everything from Health to Housing supports income supports Prescriptions even things as simple as Giving people ID so that they could be Able to move forward with their lives And then we supported the police and we Went in and we started tearing down all Those encampments uh and we started to Have some pretty amazing results I look Forward to talking with you about but we Made a pretty clear statement that that Our province is no longer going to Tolerate this uh one because it's not Safe for the people in the encampments But also it's just not right for a place Like Emon and ammonian deserve to have a Clean City where we can live where they Can live happily and enjoy their lives Okay so let's take this apart so you Said first of all how long ago did this Problem start to mount do you think Because there wer there weren't 10 Cities in Edmonton when I lived in there Lived there back in the 1980s that's for Sure and I visited many times I mean There are 10 cities now in Toronto too And that's a completely new thing so When did you really when did you guys Really start to become aware of this as A mounting problem you know we started To see 10 cities pop up in Emon probably

Over the last two or three years but in Particularly over the last year year and A half where it would really become Basically every Corner that you turned Particularly within the downtown core of The city of Emon the other thing that Was new though was we're also seeing Those tent cities well outside of the Downtown areas and so they were starting To pop up all across the city but that Was probably the timeline around emont I Think we you know we really saw that a Lot in our country in places like Hastings and Vancouver which are have a Real bad Tent City culture and drug Culture inside that City but it was kind Of more new to our area over the last Couple years okay so it's about two or Three years now you said that there were Edmonton alone how many people live in Edmonton now just so everyone has a Sense of its size we we're getting up Towards a million I believe Edmonton Somewhere north of 800,000 I don't have The number around but we're that'd be The right area yep okay and you said There were there were literally hundreds Of encampments and that some of them had Hundreds of tents is that is that right That is 100% correct hundreds of Encampments and inside some of those Encampments you know I think the biggest Encampment I'm aware of was 400 plus Structures oh yeah okay okay so that's

Starting to approach Village size Essentially well you know as a member of The legislative assembly here in Alberta I represent Villages that are smaller Than some of these Encampments okay okay so now why in the World do you think this Happened so rapidly in the last two or Three years what's changed is it housing Costs I mean housing costs have gotone Out of control in Canada everyone knows That and interest rates have gone up a Lot and so but that that alone seems to Me to be unlikely as a causal Explanation so you know how why is this Happening who are these people in the Main and where did they come From yeah you know housing is a real Issue in our country particularly given Some of the bizarre Federal policies That we've seen from our federal Government in Canada and and the Inflationary problems that we see in North America but I want to be clear the Challenge when it comes to 10 cities is Not a housing challenge uh housing is One of the consequences of of somebody Who ends up in these situations they Don't have housing but it's not a root Cause of why somebody ends up inside a Tense City the reality is that lots of This has to do with drugs lots of this Has to do with mental health in other Circumstances and I I think there are

Some people who want to frame this Discussion like Mom and Dad who lost Their job in the oil industry and Somehow are struggling to pay their Mortgage that's a very real issue inside Our country and our province that we Need to address and we are working on as A society but that's not what this is uh These individuals that are find Themselves in these encampments lots of It's drug related Uh and we are seeing that without a Doubt when we go into these encampments And you know I really it drives me nuts Personally as a minister responsible for This in our province that certain Elements on the left continue to want to Discuss this issue in the context of Housing it's not the root causes of Homelessness and why people are intense Cities are something very very different And he ask why what has changed that we Would see that more there has been much More a culture uh certainly in our Country of accepting uh abusive Behavior To oneself including using drugs and a Concept uh that we need to embrace that And accept that putting poison into People's bodies is how we help them deal With things like addiction and that's Something our province has rejected Underneath the leadership of multiple Prem but particularly Premier Smith Where our province has been really

Dedicated on focusing on addiction Recovery and helping individuals in the Circumstance but there's certainly Elements of our province that just want To let it continue and so some of that Is what's undertone of all of this issue When it comes to encampments and T Cities inside our Pro Okay so let me let me push on that Because I want to make sure that I Understand this completely all right so You make the somewhat surprising claim I Would say that in your opinion um a Small percentage of the variance in this Problem is accounted for by economics Specifically related to housing now That's in it's interesting to me to have You say that because if you were Inclined to make political points you Could do do that just as effectively on The housing and infl infation side as You could on the drug use tolerance side Let's say right so so there's no I can't See any a Priory reason why you would Come down as a political agent on one Side of that argument or another but What is it that's made you so convinced That it is in fact a drug problem to What degree is it an alcohol problem as Well and what drugs what drugs are Primarily the cause at the moment and And is that like is that part parts of The new wave of drugs that has entered The North American economy so like are

You certain that it's drugs and alcohol How much alcohol how much drugs which Drugs so again I want to be very clear I Don't dispute that we have housing Challenges and you're right I can make Political statements on that alone that Uh that I think could be very clear but That's a different issue and why I'm so Certain about that is because of what We're seeing from the individuals that We've now been able to successfully get Out of these encampments in to our Social services process with supports Around them and the vast majority uh I Would say all have some sort of mental Health issue and the vast majority are Also facing addiction issues as a result And we're so we're seeing things like Fentanyl which is a major uh drug that Is impacting all of our societies across North America and the world we're seeing Much more of that in our communities now Methamphetamin is a major drug that has Been evolving on the streets it has real Serious fatal consequences to Individuals involved uh but that is what Is taking place inside these 10 cities Often it's a place where individuals Seem to be going to be doing drugs one Other thing that we found out I actually Should point out is that the vast Majority of individuals that we're Interacting with in these encampments Afterwards are also using our emergency

Shelter system and other services in our Province to be able to stay warm to get Food to get other resources to be able To survive on the streets but they're Using those tent cities as a place to be Able to score drugs there a place to be Able to use drugs and and that is the Culture that is taking place in most of These 10 cities I'm not saying every Person but certainly the vast majority Of who we interact with in these 10 Cities has got some sort of drug and or Alcohol addiction oh okay so let's take That apart a little bit I mean so back In the early 70s that's really when it Started there was an anti- a leftist Anti- Psychiatry and anti- Institutionalization movement um it was Driven in part by the kinds of concerns That were brought to light by movies Such as One Flew Over The cucko Nest Which really was quite a genius movie And a great novel and written by a Psychiatric orderly who had seen plenty Of abusive situations within Institutions to be clear um they were Hardly places you would go for a picnic But the leftist solution to that was to Demonize the psychiatric profession and To Deinstitutionalize and the solution was To produce um Community Alterna Alternatives that would help integrate These oppressed people who had been

Falsely diagnosed with mental illness by Evil psychiatrists back into the Community well suffice it to say those Additional resources were never made Available not in any phen in any Fundamental way and many of those So-called many of the so-called mental Illnesses those people had were actual Illnesses and not figments of Totalitarian psychiatric psychiatrist's Imagination and so Deinstitutionalization what de Institutionalization really meant was That many mentally ill people ended up In prison that was the fundament yeah or On the streets and so and so this is a This this homeless epidemic is a late Stage consequence of the fact that we Don't have Pro we abandon our attempts To provide proper institutional care so We'll get back to that now you you said That the vast majority of these the People who are in these tent cities have A drug and or multiple drug and alcohol Problem and that they are utilizing all Sorts of other resources but that They're using the tent cities in Particular as a place to gather and get Easy access to their elicit drugs now Obviously if you're not naive out of Your out of your skull that's an amazing Opportunity for gangs for drug pedaling Gangs especially the ones that are Pedaling the the hard and addictive

Drugs and so you know the problem with This Hyperco compassionate approach these Poor people they need a place to live They might as well move into the parks Who are we to stop them from having a Place to live um they're all Economically challenged is that it Belies the reality of the drug addiction Problem that you described and the Criminality that goes along with it but There's something even worse there's Something even more nefarious about it It completely eliminates the possibility That even if you brought a group of People who were suffering together in This unstructured manner all you would Do is invite the psychopathic gangs to Come in and take control now you said That's what's happened that not only are They are these tent cities so-called Places of massive drugs distribution There are sources of ongoing revenue for Not only for gangs but for organized Gangs and so for like hardcore multiple Offense Dead Set against the public Order criminals to pray on people who Are vulnerable the the addicted Population let's say and and to pray in Them in mult in a multitude of ways you Know you you skipped over some very Interesting details like they're being Charged to stay in the tents well by who It's not like anybody owns those tents

Or the land okay they're they're being Charged to get access to water there and Then there's what prostitution gangs and If not prostitution gangs what open race Like exactly what did you guys see when You started delving into the this this Subculture produced by the toxically Compassionate so you're 100% right and When I say gangs I'm talking about very Organized gangs definitely organized Crime uh the the police brought the Government very clear evidence which They have presented to the media Including photographic evidence of what Is taking place inside these 10 cities That show that The Gangs have control Within them and are uh certainly uh Abusing vulnerable people as a result of That it's obviously a place where They're selling drugs it's obviously a Place uh where people are getting access To things that they should not but we Also have received clear evidence that People are being charged even to get to Water fountains is a common thing that The police have brought to us um we have And and this for me personally was one Of the things that I was just shocked That the media in my provin to not cover As much as they should some of the early Uh tent cities that they went into the Police came out with evidence of minor Children being sexually exploited Within These 10 cities uh that alone for me was

Enough that we needed to tear them all Down full stop completely unacceptable So you know and and then the other thing That I should point out that the chief Of the EM Police Service really has has Done a good job of articulating for the Media is how much stolen property in of Itself is being stored Within These tent Cities I mean they went to this this one Area where there was a mound of bicycles That were clearly stolen that were Bigger than than me and Jordan I'm a Real big guy I'm about 6'8 he's a big Pile of stolen property and so there's Been clear evidence time and time again That documents what is taking place with The gangs inside these areas and and You're right they are exploiting the Most vulnerable amongst us uh and so It's not safe and I think the key point To this is it's not safe for the people In the 10 cities and it's not safe for Emoni and I think this is the same Circumstance you would see in any other Major city in North America where these Tent cities are taking place Financial experts thought we were in the Clear while these experts anticipated Rate Cuts inflation in the United States Is still a significant economic concern Think about it the US is in the hole by $34 trillion and yet we keep printing Money which pushes the prices you pay Every day even higher so you can bury

Your head in the sand or you can do Something about it diversify a portion Of your savings into gold with Birch Gold group gold is your hedge against Inflation and Birch gold makes it easy To own they'll help you convert your Existing Ira or 401K into a tax Sheltered Ira in gold and you won't pay A penny out of pocket make gold part of Your savings strategy and buy it from Birch gold they've been the exclusive Gold partner of the daily wire for over 7 years now literally helping thousands Of our listeners and they can help you Too text Jordan to 9898 98 and get your Free info kit on gold then talk to a Precious metal specialist about Protecting your savings from persistent Inflation with gold text Jordan to 98 9898 [Music] Now yeah well it's also it's not safe For a variety of reasons I mean here's Here's a compelling reason so imagine You set up um a set of essentially Lawless domains and in consequence you Produce a specialized breed of Psychopathic criminal who is then highly Organized it's like if you think that That highly organized criminal gang is Is going to limit its criminal activity To the tth city once it's established You're an absolute bloody fool and so we Know for example as criminologists that

And I did a lot of work as a researcher In the area of antisocial personality And criminology 1% of the criminals are Responsible for 65% of the crimes you Let those long-term life course Psychopath Psychopathic repeat offenders Get away with what they're doing you're Going to reap the Whirlwind right it's a Very very bad idea and so now why do you Think okay so so let's ask two questions Who are these gangs and where do they Come from right and who's running in the Drugs how much of that's coming from China who's controlling the distribution Do you guys have a sense of that and uh Well let's start with that you know in Alberta the way I've been briefed with Our law enforcement uh support is that We're seeing a variety of gangs Particularly indigenous gangs when You're in the Emon area that are Operating on the street but we also have Clear evidence of actually cartels Including Mexican cartels and uh some of This coming from the Asian market to Your point all operating here within the Province of Alberta so there are these Are pretty seriously organized gangs a Lot of that is to bring in the drugs Obviously to our street and then they're Using our street gangs which are often Indigenous on the streets to be able to Uh to move that product through places Like tent cities okay so you made

Reference to the Mexican cartels let's Start with the Mexican cartels in the Asian Supply so is there do you have any More details on on on either of those Fronts it's a lovely thing to imagine Now that the Mexican cartels are Operating not only in the southern us But in Alberta itself that's that's a Real accomplishment on our part I must Say and so Mexican cartel is an Asian Supply I presume the Asian Supply is Mostly associated with Fentel yes that is correct uh and you Know the best person in our government To talk to about this is obviously our Public Safety Minister who's managing This closy and be the one giving us this Information but we certainly have have Clear evidence of cartels being in drugs Particularly across our Southern border Uh and and frankly we're now starting to See inside our Province where we're Becoming an exporter of things like Fentanyl so some of the products are Being brought up here to be be made on Our side of the line and then now Brought back even uh down south which is Quite a new thing for the province of Alberta uh but certainly you know it Explains some of the circumstances that We're we're seeing in our Province and I Would say Jordan that emitent for us Which our capital city is probably one Of our smaller drug problems you know

One of the the bigger areas we're seeing Some of our largest drug problems on the Street is actually in Lethbridge which Interestingly enough is the closest city To the American Border uh a large city In our Province to the American Border And really I think as a proof point that Some of that drugs is starting there Because of what's taking place on the Border and which is why we're seeing Some of the most potent and deadly drugs Inside the Left Bridge area as it works Its way into the street culture right so Maybe I should also at some point talk To the public safety minister so okay And then you mentioned indigenous gangs Okay so now when I again when I lived in Elbert in the 1980s now that's getting To be quite a long time ago 40 years ago There weren't organized indigenous Street gangs or if there were there were Very few of them I mean Edmonton was a Stunningly safe place with the exception Of a few blocks downtown which by say American Standards were still relative American downtown dangerous standards is Was still pretty civilized there was Just not a problem so so so what's Shifted in Alberta and and what is the Makeup and origin of these indigenous Gangs well I think what's shifted is the Money in the drug markets uh for sure Would would provide more ability for Gangs to become more and more organized

And you know the police have been out in In our Province very clearly Establishing who these gangs are and They're the ones who are giving me as a Cabinet minister that information of What is taking place there I mean Obviously me my job is to provide that Social services support to individuals Within These 10 cities but we're working Closely with the police who are the ones Coming and briefing us about the dangers Of gangs and there is no doubt in the City of amiton but also across our Province that we continue to see that Organized gang element increasing my Personal view is and I think the police Would agree with me that a lot of that Is being driven obviously by drugs and You know I uh as I think you know I used To work in in a homeless shelter I grew Up in a homeless shelter my father is The founder of one of the largest Homeless shelters and organizations that Work with the poor in western Canada Here in Calgary called The Mustard Seed And we did not see anything like this Type of drug activity even 15 years ago I you know we would never have imagined A spot where we would see individuals Working within shelter seeing multiple Overdoses a day and sometimes multiple Fatalities in a week inside their Facilities and that just shows you What's changed as far as the drug Market

Which I which is logical what is driving This organized crime element because of The money that would be involved in that Okay so let's delve a little bit into The contribution of federal policy into Producing this situation so I know that The situation that you're describing in Alberta is even more out of hand let's Say in British Columbia especially in Vancouver and Vancouver is a much bigger City with a much darker Center I mean Vancouver had some downtown places that Were like seriously bad 40 years ago and So and that's certainly spreading on the Western coast now my understanding is That Canada at the federal level in some Ways took a page from some of the European countries that were Experimenting with decriminalizing drug Use now I have some sympathy for that Viewpoint because it isn't obvious to me That the so-called War on Drugs was a Success and I think that it's attempt to Crack down too brutally on users of At least in the past somewhat more Benign substances like cannabis and I Mean benign in comparison to alcohol say Which is legal I think a fair bit of That was misguided but I do know that Countries like Portugal for example that Spearheaded this they didn't just reduce The penalties for drug use and and Distribution let's say sales and Distribution they did that in concert

With what seemed to be the kind of Things that you guys are trying to pull Off in Alberta right it wasn't like the Portuguese allowed people to be stoned Out of their mind derelicts on the Streets just because they stopped Criminalizing use of even the harder Drugs and my understanding is that in Canada we did the first part which was The easy part the decriminalization that Allowed the moralists to handwave about How compassionate and wonderful they Were but we didn't do the second part Which was the conscientious part that Involved the the identification Treatment cleanup and even sometimes Criminal prosecution of people who had Gone a little too far down the drug Taking heed nistic Road let's say so how Do you see the problem that's that's Developed in Alberta as a manifestation Of a broader change in legislation at The federal level with regards to drug Policy yeah and let me just first start By saying uh we're very proud our Province has not become what's happening In BC yet and we're not going to let That happen that's why we're taking this Action to make sure that we don't end up In circumstances like that here in Alberta and you're exactly right there Is there's been an effort and a drive uh Particularly by politicians on the left In our country uh to approach this issue

Of addiction in a way that essentially Just accepts it as a disease and Continues to give the poison that is Causing the consequences to these Individuals to them uh and not work on And giving tools to be able to help an IND idual recover in those circumstances We we don't want to I want to be very Clear on this we don't want to go arrest And put somebody in jail because they Have a drug addiction that's not Happening in my Province uh the opposite Is happening we are reaching out to Those individuals we're getting them Into circumstan where they can be safe And we're providing them with the Resources that they need to be able to Recover what the other side of this Argument believes is that you need to Just put them in a place like a tent or An apartment paid for by the taxpayer And continue to allow them to have Poison put into their body and the Somehow they will either magically get Better well the reality is they won't I Call that Pala of care for drug addicts And that is where where really the big Difference is in our philosophy it's a De sentence particularly when you're Dealing with things like Fentanyl and These type of drugs now I mean it's just Going to get you at some point I mean Alcoholism which could be a real tough Circumstance and we we're dealing with

That too on the streets but that is many Decades to get to what we're seeing some Of these new drugs do to people in weeks On our streets the reality is that There's no safe Supply when it comes to Fentanyl you cannot take fentanyl safely Eventually you're going to odow this is Why inside medical facilities even where People are taking fentanyl often paid For by the government or other types of Chemicals like that um they will uh They'll you'll see have to have nurses There to be able to interact with Overdoses uh our our government really Believes we need to go the other way Which is that we need to reach out to Individual individuals in the Circumstance we need to invest in Resources that they will need to deal With deal with root causes that have Caused their circumstance an es and give Them a way to be able to recover uh and That's that's where it comes but you Know I think the 10 cities prove that We're right because the reality is if You if anybody thinks putting an Individual in tense in minus 50 degrees C in Canada is a is a safe way to live With propane tanks exploding and people Burning to death and all the things that I have just described today is that is More safer than what Alberta saying Which is come on into the shelters let's Get resources around you and let's help

You get better and you know what's Interesting Jordan is the individuals That are coming out of the encampments Most of them actually want what we're Bringing forward and that's why in the Last 3 weeks as we've done encampments Over 200 of those individuals coming out Have gone to what we call our navigation Centers so they can navigate support uh They've received over 500 referrals to Different Services many of them now are In permanent housing type of Circumstances actively working on the Recovery dealing with the medical Circumstances that may be around them And ultimately many of them will go on To have productive life that's what we Want that's Humane with the other side Is selling is just accepting that Somebody's going to die and giving them A death sentence I like that you use That those words because I think it's True that's the result of what what They're doing no doubt about it yeah There's always made if that fails you Know so exactly okay okay so let's now I Was interested in you in talking to you In part so that we could walk through a Description of the tent cities and then Even more importantly shed some light on The fact that such cities are almost Immediately taken over by the most Psychopathic gangs you can possibly Imagine that's an important thing to

Establish because it eradicates the Notion that this is some kind of Compassionate approach to these poor Unhoused people who are just trying to Live you know in a happy community no Wrong okay but mostly why I wanted to Talk to you was on the remediation and Treatment side so the first thing I want To ask you is about your sociological or Your sociological goal now you implied At the beginning of this this Conversation that there aren't going to Be any more tense cities in Alberta now Is that the goal like to to to re to Return to 30 years ago say where there Weren't 10 cities that just didn't Happen you know there's the odd person Under a bridge there's the odd homeless Person was very very rare there Certainly weren't communities of Homeless people so is your government's Goal to to attain that end and if So how far long are you and what's your Timeline so yes our goal is to make sure That we are not seeing dangerous tent Cities inside our cities you know I I Can't outright say that we would ever be Able to fully eliminate you know 10 Cities could pop up at any time but that We would stop in the future this being The management tool to help with this Population and instead that we would Invest in proper resources and most Importantly what our government's doing

That I think is courageous is that we're Actually stepping in as a subnational Government to support a Municipal Police Force to take down those encampments uh And we're going to do that uh for for Two different reasons one is to help the Individuals in which I'll get to in a Minute the individuals that are in those Encampments but second to help our Citizens uh who live in places like Emon Ammonian don't deserve to have this in Their community no more they deserve to Be able to walk down the streets and Feel safe you know the last three weeks As we tore down encampments Jordan my Our team with the with the city of Amiton collected 129 tons of garbage out Of these uh 10 cities alone including Three th000 needles so it just shows you What is taking place inside those 10 Cities and how dangerous it is to the Rest of the community but we want to go One step further we want to then make Sure these individuals receive full Wraparound supports and the best Opportunities that they can uh to Overcome the situation that they find Themselves in we're not delusional we do Realize there still going to be homeless People but we don't believe there should Be this many okay so we'll go to the Treatment of individuals in a moment so I I want to flesh out the sociological Element a bit more first so first of all

I'd like to ask you you know one of the Things that's happening in Toronto is That the tent cities increasingly occupy Public spaces and I think that's utterly Inexcusable because I don't believe that The municipality for example has a right To either take away Parks from people Including children who use those Parks More than any other than any other People and need them especially in the Cities they certainly don't have the Right to take those away they don't have The right to take them away and award Them to other people who don't own them And haven't purchased them in and and Have no contractual right to them Whatsoever and they also don't have the Right to fail to protect those parks and So tell me where you saw the tent cities Emerging and what that meant just in Terms of occupation of land for the People say in the surrounding Neighborhoods so I've seen tent cities Emerge in many different type of Locations within the city but you're Right most often it ends up inside the Green spaces in the city and I know you Know Emon so the beautiful River Valley Of the nor eskaton river that flows Right through that City you would see 10 Cities all through that area and well That's areas where people go and Jog and They ride their bikes on the weekend They take their dogs for a walk and it's

Part of you know wanting to live in the City and being able to get outside Within that area that you call home you See the same thing in Calgary along Their beautiful Bo river that flows Through that City that's often where you Would see tent cities pop up I've also Heard horror stories particularly in the City of leage which I mentioned has a Really tough drug problem right now of Families trying to take their children Out inside playgrounds in local Community parks and them ended up being Sometimes punctured by needles or other Things that are happening because the T Cities that have occupied that little Park that you know it may not be as big Of a 10 city as we sometimes see in Amonton it may only be four or five Instead of hundreds but it's inside that Area where children are playing so You're right it takes away from uh you Know people being able to enjoy the city And that green space that they have and You know B national park inside our Province uh for some of your American Viewers very similar to Yellowstone a Pretty beautiful place I like it I can't Just take my tent and set it up anywhere I want and start living and uh causing Trouble for everybody else who wants to Be able to come and enjoy the park it's A silly argument for anybody in Municipal politics to say that this is

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Recently it was mostly a rural Province It has the reputation and and I would Say it's deserved to some degree of Being something approximating the Texas Of Canada and yet what I see happening From the outside and please correct me If I'm getting this wrong is that Increasingly there is a standoff in in Alberta of sorts between radical leftist Municipal governments and the more Conservative provincial government is And that I think that That's particularly manifest in Calgary Secondarily manifest in Edmonton and Then I don't know enough about Lethbridge comment so tell me to what Degree this situation has been set up Not only as a consequence of idiotic Federal policy that are virtue signaling And and spineless and also not in the Least compassionate nor productive none Of that not not accomplishing the ends That the policies themselves were Designed in principle to accomplish There's a federal component to this but Then there's also a municipal component And one of the things I've observed Happening in Canada and in the United States but really in Canada is that the Radical leftist faux compassionate Narcissistic types have seized control Of the smaller elements of the Governmental institutions including Municipal government so I know that you

Have to step somewhat carefully G given Your position in Alberta in relationship To such a discussion but you know we did Allow for some criticism of the federal Government and its relationship with the Province well there's no reason not to Do the same thing on the other side What's the situation with the Municipalities and then well there's a Segue in there because you also Mentioned that there's a strange Cooperation between the provincial Government and the Municipal Police on This front which is quite strange right Because it means that the province is Going around the municipal governments Directly to the police that's a strange So can you flash that out for me so I Can understand it more thoroughly yeah Well let let me start with the police so You know in our structure uh something Like the Emon police would answer to a Police commission so while they are a Municipal funded organization also Funded by The Province to to a certain Amount uh the chief of police answers to Police commission not to city council And that so that puts the chief in in Interesting spot uh and when we have Somebody like the chief of police of Emon come to us and say I'm dealing with A crisis I think I need you guys' Support this is an emergency situation The cool part about my province is our

Government's prepared to jump in even if It's a little bit unorthodox because we Know we need to support that important Law enforcement agency uh and you're Right there is interesting Dynamics There that would be the Emon Police Service and I think some of those Dynamics are probably more U that the Municipal Council has to navigate more Than us because we just want to get to Work and be able to help people I I will Say this that we we're obviously we're Happy to work with every municipal Government we recognize that they're Elected that is our job as a province And we will do so but you are correct I'm happy happy to say that our large Cities over time seem to have more Leftwing Mayors and often City Councilors though not all of them then Certainly my conservative party here in The province of Alberta I I don't think I'm saying anything that would shock Anybody given that the current mayor of Emington is a former chudo cabinet Minister I'm not saying anything about Him personally he's he's certainly not On the same side of the political Spectrum as me and I think What's happen Over time is a if if they're on that Side of and that's their ideology on That side of the political Spectrum Certainly they're going to start to Believe in some of these ideas which is

That you know somehow you can magically Help somebody get better by giving them The poison that's killing them over and Over But I I want to also though be clear That I think often that it's coming Maybe even from a good spot I I actually Think lots of these individuals truly Believe that this will help these Individuals get better sometimes but the Reality is I believe that I don't Believe that because well the reason I Don't believe it is because there is a Tremendous danger in using a false Compassion to elevate your own moral Virtue public publicly and there are Ancient prescriptions against doing such Things so the third commandment depends On how you count them is to not use God's name in vain and what that really Means is do not attribute to yourself Moral virtue for pursuing something that Merely furthers your own agenda and I See plenty of that on the compassionate Left and it's also a variant of praying In public along with all the protest It's like look how good I am look how Much I care it's like yeah did you do Any of the goddamn work like have you Ever worked yeah exactly let let me say That a different way so then you have a Politician like that who who is a True Believer in it and I I believe that you Know you got to be blind not to realize

What I've presented today is actually Hurting people and that your ideology is Wrong and that you're willing to allow People to be hurt to continue down uh Presenting your ideological beliefs but What happens I think is then you have Politicians that circumstance that are Confusing everyday people who don't Fully understand this issue and they They may be looking at things like on The news and they're going hey that That's probably the better compassionate Way to do it because they don't have all The details that I have but then when You hear the details that I just present You got to be going well actually that Conserve a government's right I mean do You want my Approach which is to reach In send a warm bus load everybody up Bring them to a nice warm facility give Them shower foods and access to Medical Resources treatment including re Rehabilitation treatment for their Addiction or to be left inside a tent Freezing to death taking poison right And that's that's what I mean by that I Think you know that ends up creating a Spot where very good people then end up Supporting this approach because they Don't you know they're Everyday People They're working they just watch us on The news and they go hey well that maybe Make sense and they don't understand That they in the end they're ended up

Supporting an ideology that's actually Killing people yeah no look I agree I Think that well that's exactly why I Wanted to do this podcast and now I Think we should get to the nitty-gritty Which is not that all of this was Irrelevant but the real relevant issue Here is you Know what the hell are you doing that's Going to work so let me give a preamble To this so for everyone watching and Listening there's two major there's a Cantation of two major problems here the First problem is that antisocial Behavior and drug use overlap and so What why is that a problem well the First problem is there is nothing in the Psychological literature that's more Intractable to treatment once it's Established than antisocial criminal Behavior and there's absolutely no Indication in the clinical literature That it's that it can be aili ated so For example the standard penological Doctrine of well versed criminologists Is that you have a re if you have a Truly repeat offender who has an Antisocial history stemming back into Like early teenagehood or even before in The form of bullying and and violent Behavior as a child the best thing to do With them since no treatment works is Basically to incarcerate them till they Burn out in their late 20s and like and

People can can shrug their shoulders and Get squawky about that and about It all they want but I would have been Thrilled if I would have gone through The research literature and found any Exceptions to that absolutely dismal Prognostication in the 30 years I've Analyzed the literature and have been Unable to do so it's very very very very Difficult to treat antisocial Behavior Okay then you add the other next layer Of complication which is difficult as it Is to treat antisocial Behavior it's Perhaps equally difficult to treat drug And alcohol addiction um alcohol often Being primary among the problems that Are difficult to treat there's no Evidence whatsoever generally speaking That residential treatment centers for Example have any beneficial long-term Effect they do function to get people Off alcohol while they're in the centers But almost invariably what happens is That when you put the people treated Back into their old environment they Instantly relax now this is not to say That no one ever recovers because most People do in fact straighten back up but It isn't obvious at all how treatment Can do that so that Puts policy people like you in a really Tough bind because you're dealing with a Population that's very very very hard to Serve and so the first thing I would

Like to know you talked about these Uniservice Cent So I would like to Know just what does it mean to offer People treatment how do you tear down These tent cities exactly like what are The nuts and bolts involved in that the Process you're like do you what do you Do do you go in there and just like tell Me how you clean up the cities and then Tell me how it is that people are Directed into treatment and then we'll Get into the worst problem of like does It actually work so I'll start with how How how we're dealing with it and now Now Emon is where we're piloting this Approach and I think we're going to Mimic it elsewhere in our Province Because we're we are pretty excited About the results but let me tell you What we do first so obviously my social Services team uh at the Ministry of Social Services is in contact with the Police the police inform us of the Encampment is coming down and they deal With the law enforcement side of that so Deal with any elements that they may Encounter in there that obviously need To be arrested warrant issues that are Taking place they handle law enforcement But we're there so they move in like Okay so they make a decision and what Are the laws under which they're what Under what

Legal pretext do they do they move in Why do they have the right to do this so Two issues that we primarily use uh one Is around just straight up bylaw Enforcement and you know there's Obviously rules about you being able to Just go build structures in different Municipalities and the second and more Common one of late from my understanding Is around fire safety issues I mean we Have had some pretty serious fires and Propane tank explosions the numbers are Are quite staggering and so it is a Legitimate fire issue and so the police Have to come in they're not the Firefighters obviously but the police Have to come in because of the safety Issues that are involved now do you warn Do you warn the people beforehand and How many policemen do you need per Number of of tent city occupants what Are the logistics here yeah you so the City of amonton had has an encampment Policy where they were uh trying to put Upon the police I believe to provide 72 Hours notice that they were going to go Into those 10 cities uh this is Something we actually dis agreed with Because the reality was that just caused People either to move it certainly gave A heads up to that organized crime Element that there was about to be law Enforcement activity and so you know Since we and there was a court case

Taking place in our Province from some Activist groups who were trying to uh be Stop the police from being able to do This or enforce uh notice requirements We the city of amiton uh and the police Actually won that case and that has Allowed us to be able to go in and be Able to address this uh without notice And so what happens is OB we're notified We arrive with the police and when I say We I mean social workers and our team That are are designed to support the Police they work closely with them the Police secure the area they deal with Their end of it but at that point we Have a warm bus right there ready to go Everybody is offered an opportunity to Be able to go to what we call our Navigation Center okay that's everybody So that you offer that everybody in the Camp and and what are the what's the Biggest camp that you guys have managed To take on at a time well so I think the Biggest camp that heard of would be Three 300 350 structures since we Started this process U interestingly Enough though you would only find Probably a few dozen people actually Within that t City when we we arrive oh I see I see okay so you're looking at Numbers under a 100 when you're when You're moving in and you're okay okay so And so that's what five or six buses Four or five buses something like that

Yeah it depending on the circumstance Obviously there's been there' be police Intelligence and our you know our our Team would be giving rough idea what They think is going to be coming while We're arriving on scene they're radioing Back to that navigation Center they're Saying here's how many people we think We have coming in uh you know one of the Big things we have there is we have the Ability for them to be able to load and Totes their personal belongings we don't Want anybody to lose their stuff uh we Even take pets Jordan we can load the Pets up on that bus uh couples can go Together and we get them from there to The warm navigation Center and they Arrive at that navigation Center uh There's showers available right away uh There's food coffee things that people May need obviously is a warm location we Also have shelter beds there uh for you Know sometimes people need to dry out or Something that may take place obviously There could be medical circumstances That need to be addressed obviously Anybody who would need a hospital of Course we would use paramedics we would Get them immediately to emergency but Beyond that everything else can be Handled in that navigation Center and so When you get there you'll you you Interact with our staff and then there's Multiple different stations throughout

It which I'll talk about and the genius I think of what we've done here is we Brought instead of trying to take this Person from uh you know these tent Cities all over the city to all these Different Services we brought all the Nonprofits all the government services Together in one spot to come around that Individual and so they'll arrive and They can get full Medicals there's Doctor or there's our Medical Teams for The street that can deal with that Access to prescriptions uh you know one Of the most interesting things that you Find that a lot of individuals in this Circumstance need is ID they don't have ID no more so we have our our our our Ministerial colleagues over in service Alberta who handle ID in our Province They're there right on site they can Give temporary ID immediately to these Individuals and then we can get their Permanent ID ordered all the pictures uh They obviously have access then to Income supports be able to register for Things that they may be entitled to that They did they did not know and then Ultimately uh towards things like uh Temporary housing emergency housing and Eventually permanent housing resources So they can interact with those Individuals and of course uh access to Drug recovery programs which we can talk About in a moment but that is all

Happening in that one location and so We've been at this for about three weeks We've seen you know well over 200 Individuals come out of those uh tent Cities and actively participate in this Process we referred to over 500 uh Different Services uh and we've been Pretty impressed with the results of That now that's may seem like a small Number but given what we've been working On this is kind of a you know a real Micro area that we're working on but we Think it's been so successful that we're Getting ready to bring this right into Our actual emergency homeless shelters Which are thousands of individuals and Into other areas where our Social Services System interacts with with the Same type of clientele and again with The goal of saying how do we help you Stop the circumstances that you're in And move forward I also want to stress That we talked a lot about drugs today But there's a lot of mental health Issues that are taking place including Schizophrenia and some real challenges Right these are very serious mental Health issues and by being able to come In and we have our Health Services right Around us again pharmacist support we Can really get some really needed things Around those individuals to start to Have a good conversation about what a More successful healthy life might look

Like going online without expressvpn is Like leaving your kids with the nearest Stranger while you go to the restroom They're probably not a kidnapper or a Serial killer but why would you ever Take that risk every time you connect to An unencrypted Network in cafes hotels Or airports you leave leave your data Vulnerable any hacker on the same Network can steal your personal data Such as your passwords and financial Details it doesn't take much technical Knowledge to hack someone hackers can Make up to $1,000 per person selling Personal info on the dark web expressvpn Creates a secure encrypted tunnel Between your device and the internet so That hackers can't steal your sensitive Data it take a hacker with a Supercomputer over a billion years to Get past expressvpn's encryption I love How easy expressvpn is to use you just Fire up the app and click one button to Get protected plus it works on all Devices phones laptops tablets and more So you can stay secure on the go secure Your online data today by visiting Expressvpn.com Jordan exp Rvp.com Jordan and you can get an extra 3 months free that's Expressvpn.com [Music] Jordan okay so I got a couple of Questions there there um and some

Procedural I want to discuss some Procedural issues too okay so the first Issue is I'm trying to imagine what it's Like for someone in a tent encampment to Be let's say uh displaced in that manner And you could imagine two stories one is That people are pretty damn pissed off That the cops have showed up and are now You know tearing down their their Structures but a counter story might be They're actually kind of relieved to be On a warm going somewhere that's Actually warm where they can have a Shower and get something to eat Etc and So um what's your sense of how the Tent City inhabitants themselves are Responding to this intervention by Government authorities and Police so the the vast majority of the Individuals that we've interacted with That are actually in the tent cities uh That would then come into our services Obviously so obviously if the police Have had to arrest a gang member or Something like that they're probably not That thrilled that we're here but the Individuals that we're trying to get There to help uh they react very Positively you know the biggest Protesters that we've seen or others who Are trying to uh interfere with this Process are not people staying inside The tent cities they're often members of The official opposition our province

Which is the NDP which is a Socialist Party within our Province or other Activist groups who certainly have never Spent one night on the street and are There trying to bang on a drum that has Nothing to do with what we're talking About and they're just trying to use These vulnerable people to be able to You know accelerate their agenda and you Which is very disappointing we seen I've Seen some uh police body cam footage of These individuals throwing snowballs at The police while they're trying to go in Interact and deal with the situation in The encampments but the vulnerable People in general uh have been pretty Excited once they realize what Opportunities they have and I've been There to interact at this navigation Center with them and I've also heard From my staff and the most common Reaction is I had no idea that this Resources were available and they quite Interested in it now obviously Everybody's at a different stage that May be taking place there but certainly I think uh we you know you get a nice Warm bed you could have a warm shower You probably start to ask questions About whether or not you want to Continue to sleep inside that tent in Minus 50° C or if this is a better Option okay okay so now I want to ask You um about how you regulate the

Interactions between people in these Centers because you we already discussed The fact that in the tent cities the Fact of the tent cities is an invitation To criminality and gangs and so then First question I have is like how the Hell do you ensure that that problem Isn't duplicated inside your your Centers themselves so it's a very Important question and I will answer it But I also want to to emphasize that What we see on that you know for lack of A better uh word on Words on that left Side of the spectrum when they argue About us taken down these tent cities is They often say well your shelters are Just as dangerous now again if you go Back through this entire conversation we Just had you realize how ludicrous that Is real quick that said of course we Start putting thousands of individuals In the same type of demographics a lot Of the same circumstances happening Inside our emergency shelter system You're going to see some of the same Elements show up and we for sure have Seen gangs out operating within our Emergency Shelter Systems we are Obviously managing overdoses and drug Issues and those type of circumstances But but we've invested in security we Are working closely with our local Police services who really support us And our often nonprofit emergency

Shelter providers uh uh to be able to Navigate through those issues we've also Up security to be able to make sure that Uh people's stuff is safe uh we've had To put a lot of money into dealing with Overdoses and other medical issues Within our our emergency facilities and While anywhere as you know Jordan in Society where we start to gather that Many people together there's going to be You know elements of trouble it is Certainly significantly less than what We're seeing inside 10 cities and we're Definitely using tools to be able to Mitigate those circumstances okay okay So now I'm going to ask you some Questions more on the psychological and Treatment front as I said I spent a lot Of time looking into the viability of Treatment processes that are are what Widely distributable and effective and On the psychological front and with Regard to Addiction Counseling and and The treatment of various forms of mental Disorder and they're few and far between Effective treatments so I want to ask You a couple of questions the first is Um have you guys given some Consideration to the maximum size of Your facilities because my suspicions Are that the smaller you keep those Centralized centers the less trouble You're going to have with their Spiraling into criminal activity and

Gangs and the more welcoming you'll be Able to make them for people who are Being taken off the street so so that's The first question what what have you Seen and are you tracking the data Pertaining to the size of the initial Treatment Facilities so we are definitely uh Tracking data and I I one of the things That we're trying to do on my end of Policy and the process that my Ministry Runs is to try to bring in other types Of the ways that we do emergency shelter For for the homeless population so you Have your much more traditional shelters That many people would just think about That they'd see on TV often run by a Faith-based organization I want to say Thank God for our faith-based Organizations because they really do Good work with us but we have recognized A need for smaller shelters shelters That are focused on women only for Example in our in our society in our Province shelters that are indigenous Focused with indigenous leadership right On site to be able to to uh work on that We've opened up indigenous only shelters Women only shelters inside our Province Supported by the government and we're Seeing success by getting that smaller And being able to work with different Demographics more focused at the end of The day what we have in our Province and

What what Premier Smith has done in our Province is actually bring in a mental Health and addictions cabinet minister My colleague Dan Williams who is a part Of the health system who is fully Focused on mental health and addictions And so he's the best one to talk to About specifically how they handle Long-term drug treatment but what my job Now is is to redig the entire social Services system in our Province to end Up connecting to that and that's where There's a real difference in viewpoints Between us and the left right I mean Where they want us to build Shelter Systems where everybody can keep doing Drugs and just accept that behavior and And and ignore the negative consequences Of that uh we are building Shelter Systems and processes that Connect into The work that Dan Williams and his team Are trying to do and it is a whole Different way of thinking I don't know Anywhere else in the province where You've got an entire social services System working on focused on actual Recovery Care longterm for individuals Right so we're we're not in the business Of trying to Warehouse people our job is To find individuals support them with Their immediate medical needs and then Try to connect them to long-term Opportunities uh to get them better okay So okay so that brings me to the second

Clinical issue I wanted to bring up so You can treat people's present distress But much of people's present distress is Rooted in a kind of nihilistic and Anxiety-ridden Hopelessness and they say it's been said Forever that the people perish without a Vision and one of the things you do see With people who adopt a very short-term Strategy towards life which can have a Criminal element or an addictive element Is that they don't have anything Resembling a vision for their life or a Plan and so we experimented my my Colleagues and I experimented with the Provision of planning software and so we Have a program online called self author Which is very inexpensive requires No supervision whatsoever to administer That's completely private and um that's Actually accessible to everyone to some Degree assuming a basic level of both Literacy and ability to use a computer But virtually everyone can use a phone Now so you know that's less and less of A problem okay so it's called Self-authoring this program okay so now The first thing it does it's got three Stages and you can do just one or or all Three let's say one or two or all three The first stage has people write out What's essentially an autobiography and It's a good treatment for Trauma so it ask people to go through

Their life to write their life story Essentially but it provides them with a Lot of different prompts break your life Into six epox describe the major Positive and negative events then it Walks you through an analysis of the Those events and so what that tries to Do is to situate People in relationship to their past and Bring them up to the present okay so This is where I came from these are the Events that shape me and and this is Where I am now okay so that's the past Authoring now the present authoring Helps people assess their faults and Their Virtues and the so it presents them with A variety of descriptive statements that They can check off and then it Aggregates the ones that they're more Most convinced about and it says well it Helps them walk through an analysis Which is what stupid things are you Doing that hurt you as far as you're Concerned and what are your strengths That you could capitalize on if you Decided to move into the Future Okay so That's the second stage the third stage This might be most relevant to your Endeavor is the future authoring program So here's the here's the Program so people who are who are Writing the Um essay let's say are enjoyed to

Imagine that they were treating Themselves like they like they were Someone they wanted to Help okay now project yourself five Years in the future okay so here's the Deal within the bounds of reason you can Have what you want and need but you have To specify what it is you have to aim at It now we're always moving towards an End and so if if you don't have an end Name you don't have any hope because Hope is experienced in relationship to An A and you're anxious because there Are too many places to go so you bind Yourself with a vision and you give Yourself hope all right so five years Down the road what would your life look Like if you were educating yourself Properly if you were in a career that Was the one you wanted or at least a job That was the one you wanted if your Family was put together in some Reasonable manner if you had the friends That you needed if you were regulating Your drug alcohol use which needs a plan And not merely cessation of addiction if You were contributing to your community If you were taking care of yourself if You were occupying yourself properly With your time outside of work if you Could have what you wanted what would it Look like Okay the reason I'm telling You this there's two reasons number one Is it's Dirt Cheap it's easily

Accessible and we have produced solid Empirical data and this is being Replicated in other ways in other labs Using writing Exercises the worst so if you take young Men who have a bad AC academic history And they do this future authoring Exercise for 90 minutes when they're Orienting themselves at College they are Half as likely to drop out half right it Produces an increment of 35% in grade Point Average right three separate studies one At Mohawk College in Ontario so Basically a trade school one at McGill University and oh and four studies two Studies that were aggregated at a Business school in the Netherlands and The most potent effects were for the Worst performing minority young Men right so one of the things that Might be worth considering is in cour See people who are lost need a plan they Need to figure out who they are and they Need a plan now that's an expensive Proposition but this process circumvents The expense and then there's an up Another upside which is apart from it Not costing anything it has no negative Consequences right so even if it fails It isn't going to hurt people right so I'm Curious so so far you see we've kind of Approached the addiction and the

Homeless problem as something akin to an Addiction you know which is let's say It's a it's a consequence of craving in The present but that's not all an Addiction is an addiction is something That destroys the Future and so people often look the Addiction literature is Crystal Clear People will not stop taking their drug Of delight until they have something Better to do so young men for example Are very much likely to to abuse alcohol With some regularity most of them quit Around 24 25 something like that when They take on like a full-time job and Adop some adult responsibilities but Until then they think well you know it's Entertaining to drink my drink myself Into the ground three nights a week and And many of them do but as soon as There's something better to do they quit Now if you don't have anything we even Saw this with rats so for example you Cannot get rats that are integrated into A social environment addicted to cocaine Yeah I know this study well yeah right If you isolate them put them in a in a In a a alone in a box they'll take Cocaine in preference to everything else Okay so I'm wondering have you guys Integrated anything like a like a uh What would you say a process that helps People generate a concrete plan into the Treatments that you're

Offering so how how it's taking place in Alberta is because we have our mental Health and addiction Ministry uh they're Bringing forward I'm going to talk a Little bit about what they're doing Recovery programs and so and you're Right I mean I used to do this for a Living before I was in politics so I I I Follow a lot what you're saying here Jordan and but you know having to get That Community together obviously got to Deal with the immediate issues that Somebody's dealing with maybe immediate Trauma there could be some pretty Significant mental health issues you Start going down the road of schiz Friendy as you know we're going down a Different type of path but in general You got to get community around people You got to deal with their immediate Issues show them a path forward your Right goal setting uh and off you go I Would say another one that I've learned Over time was also showing people There's other ways to be able to have Fun appropriately That's there's other ways to do to be Able to go forward like that and so when You get into Minister Williams Department after you leave our services And if you're focused on recovery they Do something called recovery Capital It's one of the first things they do They start a process with an individual

To understand what their recovery Capital is and so that talks about the Assets they have where they're at what They have access to and obviously the Drug side of things that I'm dealing With right there in the homeless Population would be some of the toughest Addiction issues that min Williams Department will have to deal with I mean This is this is not a functioning Alcoholic this your individuals who are Living in a tent right and there are in Very different circumstances so they'll Have lower recovery Capital but that Means there's going to be more that Needs to be done to get them to recovery But certainly they put together that Process what's different though in Alberta is we're committed to that Process and so if you see other Provinces or other jurisdictions in the World they want to go to a different Process they want to go to the put them In an apartment paid for by a taxpayer Let them do drugs so they pass away That's essentially what it comes out to Uh go in there and say you know what You've got this disease called addiction There's basically nothing that could be Done we just want to support you and Make you comfortable Alberta we don't Believe that we believe that individuals Can recover we believe the science is There it's hard work you're correct but

Our job now in our social services Sector under the leadership of prer Smith is to build a system that bridges Into these recovery programs are being Built by our colleagues and mental Health and addiction and then the next Part is really important that we have a System on the other end of those Recovery programs because you're correct They go into something like an addiction Treatment they get the tools to deal With their addiction set long-term goals Get through that process and then you Come out and what happens too often is You come out there you just end up Relapsing because there's nothing that's Built around virtually certain yeah yeah Yeah and so we're really focused on both Ends of it we want to build a social Services system that brings people into Active recovery support obviously our Colleagues who are doing the recovery And then be there on the other end as You come out of recovery post housing Post support well and that's going to Look very different for different people I mean particularly if you're dealing With different trauma different Circumstances but in our Province we Don't want to accept that you're going To be in palet of care for drug addicts We want to get you to where you can get The help we want to get you the help and Then we want to support you as you go on

With the rest of your life and when We've done that we're seeing people have Very successful lives Jordan you can Beat addiction uh you know and there's Some more complications now with the Different drugs we're seeing and what It's doing to brain chemistry and you Know it it makes some of this more in But the reality is we do not accept in Alberta that if you are addicted to a Drug that this is a fatal disease and Our job is we are rejigging our social Services system to make sure that we are All focused on that when it comes to Drug Addiction we're currently in the midst Of Lent the 40 days leading up to Easter Many Christians are choosing to give up Alcohol social media and other Distractions to focus more on prayer Fasting and giving Hallow's annual pray 40 challenge is one of their most Popular last year over 1 million people Joined and this year there are 1.62 Million people praying as part of the Challenge this year's pray 40 challenge Focuses on surrender and includes Meditations on the powerful book he Leadth Me by father Walter shizak the Series follows shizak an American priest And missionary through his imprisonment And subsequent enslavement in the Soviet Union during World War II and the Cold War his story is one of Ultimate

Surrender and participants in the Challenge are called to surrender their Worries anxieties problems and lives to God our very own Dr Peterson's wife Tammy was recently featured in Pre 40 Where she shares her story about being Diagnosed with terminal cancer and how She personally surrendered to God the Hallow app is truly transformative and Will help you connect with your faith on A deeper level so what do you waiting For join Hallow's pray 40 challenge Today download the Hallow app at Hall.com Jordan and you'll receive an Exclusive 3-month free trial and hear Tammy Peterson's story of personal Surrender that's hall.com Jordan okay so I'm going to Z I'm going To double down on this again because um It's so it's such a crucial problem and It's so difficult to solve so I knew This woman named Joan mccort Dr Joan Mccort and she was one of the first Female PhD criminologists and I know who When she was quite an elderly woman and And she had taught at Temple University For years and she was a Pioneer in the Field and she did this study in a place Called Summersville in Massachusetts And uh back in the late 30s and it was The first large scale social Intervention Program to address what Would you say to ameliorate the Circumstances of children in

Neighborhoods where antisocial Personality and criminality and Addiction were a likely uh consequence Of of of the of of the disarray in that Environment um okay so they set up on Paper the the the intervention looked Wonderful they they there were literacy Programs for the children there were Parenting programs for the parents there Were social skills programs for the Children they tried to offer them the Resources they needed to be successful In a way that you would expect Intelligent people to offer those Resources and they went above and beyond Um the Call of Duty you might say they Took all the kids out of Summerville and Uh took them to Summer Camps out of the City for two weeks a year you know to Give them some immersion in nature and a Chance to get away and and everyone Loved the program the kids loved it the Parents loved it the teachers who were Involved loved it the social uh Services Types Who and the psychologists Etc who Were involved they thought this was a Bang up but they did uh they did one Fatal thing which is they actually built Evaluation into the program and so they Assigned the people randomly to Treatment and non-treatment group and Then after the program had run for a Couple of years they revealed the Results of the study to themselves and

This the kids in the treatment group did Worse on almost every Measure right and so they were Absolutely shocked and it turned out Like it took a couple years to figure Out exactly what had happened but what Had happened was That taking all the kids who were most Prone to criminality and putting them Together for two weeks in a camp was a School for Criminality right and that effect was so Detrimental that it obliterated not only Obliterated the effects of all the Interventions but reduced them and so or Reverse them so Joan McCord Dr McCord Spent a lot of the rest of her life Traveling around talking to politicians For example in positions like yours Saying look whenever you introduce any Intervention whatsoever make sure you Budget for evaluation because just Because your intervention makes sense Doesn't mean it's going to work now you Alluded to the fact earlier that you and This is part of what makes me so Skeptical I worked with a group of Criminologists centered in Montreal for Seven years looking at the Genesis of Antisocial Behavior the treatment of Addiction all these sorts of things with Really well-qualified people and one of The things I really learned Was don't be so sure your stupid

Intervention is going to do what you Hope it does and nothing else typical Conservative attitude in some ways right Law of unintended consequence so I'm Wondering what systems of evaluation you Guys have built in Um really on the scientific side like Are you in a position where you can Track the results of what it is that You're doing and uh like is there a team That's involved in helping you do that And if so you know what have you done And what are the what are the results of Your evaluation so far how do you and How do you know they're credible even no It's it's a great question it's the Right question too and I you know Speaking as a longtime cabinet minister You're right I mean often we're Investing in programs with the best of Intentions but you can end up making Things worse particularly in files like We're talking about you know I I if You're really interested in this I hope Eventually get an opportunity to sit Down with Minister Williams who's Leading it specifically on the work We're doing on addictions but I will Tell you on the other side of the file Um the reality is we have not done a Good job as a provin on the statistics Side this to me is what's actually most Alarming and so we are right now Diligently putting in statistical

Systems all across our housing and Homeless shelter Spectrum so we can Understand the numbers and we're Starting this with obviously this Tent City process because we've been able to Build the new navigation centers where We got good uh ability to be able to do Statistics on site and understand what's Going on and we are going to evaluate That program based on its results but One step further we've done underneath Premier Smith is we are putting in Evaluation programs across our entire Social services system on results Particularly uh on results when it comes To actually recovery and that could be Beyond just addictions that could be uh You know in case we're working on Individuals who are obviously on our Welfare programs what that would look Like is well how many people within These programs are ending up back at Work you're you're asking us for an Investment of millions of dollars for Work placements well the proof is how Many people are coming off thead RS Every year and so if you're coming back Up to me as the minister and saying I Need this many more million dollars a Year above population growth well Clearly why am I investing in your Employment programs right and so you Know there's been a lot of good programs Like that in my big Ministry that I

Think are worth looking at but we are Not going to allow it to continue Without clear assessments based on Results and you know we're about at six Seven months into that process as a Department since I took over this Ministry and I I I really believe over The next few years we'll see uh much More ability to answer that question but You're 100% correct I I would I would Say one of the things I've learned in my Time in this file is that we actually Can't answer that question with Credibility now we of course we have to Keep helping people we can't stop you Know we're not going to let people Freeze to death and we're not going to Let children live on the streets and we Have to deal with these issues but if we Want results we got to lay out the Target we got to set the goals and we Got to hold the people that we're Funding accountable as a tax paare based On results uh and so that's not just People in beds it's how you're getting Them out of the beds it's how you're Ending up making sure that they don't End up having to be in the system no More because I think that's what Everybody wants yeah yeah well that's a Very very tricky problem so you know I Worked for your department was right in 19 in 1984 well let me tell you that Story because it's Germaine to what

We're discussing so I was just I had Just graduated from the University of Alberta with my undergraduate psychology Degree and I worked for social services In the summer helping them design an Evaluation program for Daycare and yeah yeah and so I was an Intern there for four months and I got To know the assistant Deputy Minister we Got along quite nicely and she liked me And um and I worked hard and then they Hired me for a whole year as an Independent consultant and so then I Worked on developing the evaluation System for the daycare programs in Alberta for a year but there was Something else I did at the same time Because she gave me a side job which was A very comical job I'll tell you because The year before de had been commissioned By The Province to do a comprehensive Evaluation of the social services Provision and so deoe charged the Provincial government some rate that you Can well imagine would be commensurate With what consulting services like deoe Charged and they produced a bunch of Numbers about what was spent and what The effects were and so forth that were Hypothetically measurements and then my Boss at the time said could you update These numbers and I thought well that's A pretty funny request because I'm not Deo but I could give it a shot and so I

Did that over a few months and the first Thing I found out was that none of those Numbers were real the the social so for Example Social Services couldn't answer A basic question this is one of the Questions she wanted answered I think Her name was Melanie Hots if I remember Correctly yeah and she was a very sharp Lady this woman and uh um one question She wanted to answered was What percentage of what social the Department of Social Services spends Ends up in the hands of the Beneficiaries and so the basic question Was well does social services spend 95% Of its money supporting Social Service Bureaucrats and 5% on the delivery of Direct Services and the answer was well Here's a number but no one has any idea Whatsoever if that number is accurate so I updated this report at believe me a Fraction of the cost that deoe had Charged and with a hell of a lot more Accuracy in number but it was it was a Shock to me I was only about 20 at the Time something like that 84 22 and uh I Was shocked about two things I was Shocked first that I was hired to do That second that I could do it better Than deoe and third that the whole Bloody Department was blind it had no Notion what whatsoever of the Relationship between its inputs and its Outputs now that's the problem in some

Ways that's the problem with a Government intervention system that's Unmowed from the discipline of of Private Enterprise right because there's No customer to give you feedback but the Reason I'm bringing that up is because Well just to my suspicions are that m Not much has changed since and that and That Uh now you made illusion to the fact That you are putting these evaluation Systems into okay that's the question to What degree do you think that the Department of Social Services knows the Ministry of Social Services Knows what it's spending and what what It's getting for the for its dollar is Does it know at all so it I think it Would depend on the area of the Department I I think that in some areas Particularly where we're focusing on Things like children with disabilities Uh people with development disabilities Uh and some of the contracts that we do Around that where it's easier to measure That uh the direct results you know we Can we could definitely show you clear Statistics of the investment that we put Into affordable housing and how many People are living within the you know as A result of those Investments but as you Get more into these complicated areas I I I'm very comfortable saying that I Think we need to do more that I will

Also say though I think Alberta is one Of the best in our country at it and Part of that is because after 1984 as You get in the 90s Along Comes a fiscal Revolution inside our Province led by Former Premier Ralph Klein uh which Really made our Social Services System Operate a little bit more different than Many other provinces we became much more Comfortable working with outside Agencies I think I probably run one of The biggest Social Services departments That relies on nonprofits including even Faith-based organizations we're Comfortable working with those Organizations and that started in the Ralph era where they would go hey let's Not hire Union people to run our Emergency Shelters let's go work with The Salvation Army let's go work with These other organizations inside the Province to do so and so there became a Little of a culture to be able to Actually go out and work a little bit More outside of that scope of that Union Bureaucracy type of thing that you would See in most departments I am in no way Claiming that we've done that all the Way but I think it's a different culture That we see in Alberta yeah that's a Culture of distributed responsibility Which is a good conservative principle Right is that all of this that doesn't Have to be centralized shouldn't and

That's part of that's part Of providing people with what would you Say the responsibilities that actually Give them meaningful lives right you Don't want the centralized agencies to Be giving handouts and and offering what Would you call what would you call Security and stability to People so that they don't have to Provide it for themselves it's not going To work and it's not good for them okay Okay so you're now let's let's turn if You would let's turn um to a bit of a Bit of a broader issue now you guys in The last couple of Weeks last week even um have have Started somewhat of a fire in Canadian Politics because your leader Danielle Smith has come Out with policies that have upset the Compassionate left let's put it that way Now my understanding is that she has Tightened up the restrictions on Offering Socalled this is like one of the biggest Verbal lies I've ever heard so-called Gender affirming care which means Exactly the opposite by the way by any Reasonable standard by tightening up the Um ability by restricting the ability of Those who would offer the opportunity to Transform themselves physically by Tightening up the provision of that Service to children to minors now that's

Caused quite the outcry not least among Justin Trudeau's minions and Fa Compassionate butchers to put it Bluntly can you tell me a little bit About more about the nature of that Policy how you guys organized yourself So that you had enough Gall and courage To manage this because it's a very rare Thing that's being done and what you Think the response is going to be well First let me say we got a a very rare Primer and she's pretty brave and I Think she's shown that uh several times In her last year or so but this issue Would probably be the biggest where She's uh been able to do that I also Want to be clear I believe my Premier is Uh standing where the vast majority of Certainly albertans are uh and where the Vast majority of I think Canadians are And probably beyond that but certainly The people that we work for which is Albertans the vast majority agree Particularly in my constituents I think That uh you where she's headed is in the Right direction which is to recognize That uh children are children it's some You know we restrict children from Making other decisions uh that have Significant impact on their lives until They're at a spot uh where they can uh From maturity level brain development Level all those things that you Understand better than me frankly but

You know we tell our kids when they Could drink for example in our provinces I mean we we determine when those things Could take place and I don't think that Anybody that is thinking about this in a Reasonable way finds it at all that Bizarre that would do the same for Something as drastic as changing one's Body permanently when they are below the Age of 18 I mean this is a thing that a 12 or 13 year-old is should not be put In a spot to do yet it doesn't make any Sense the other things that she's done Is she's blocked uh or she she will be Bringing forward our government um not Using hormone treatment for transgender Purposes there could be other reasons Below 18 where hormone treatment may be Prescribed right but that obviously for Medical reasons would continue but to Say the same thing these decis decisions Can take place after 18 uh and you know At its core this is about putting Parents back into their children's lives And I that for me as a father inside This province is where this is at this Should be about compassion at the end of The day we are talking about children And we need to be able to make sure that That we recognize that but we also know I mean look at the issues we just talked About today lots of those individuals uh I don't think would ever come into Counseling or any other process and say

Gez I wish my parents spent less time With me I wish my parents parents are Less involved that's just not true you Know it's going to be the opposite way And so making sure that we connect Children with parents and let parents Lead this process with their children is The right thing to do now I will Recognize because what you're going to Hear from people who are upset is say Well some children will get hurt there Are bad parents sadly there is we we've Seen parents kill their children at Times but the reality is that you don't Disconnect all the children from the Good parents to deal with that Minority Situation where there's bad parents we Need to through our children's services System we need to protect children for Sure and we need to interact in Circumstances where children may not be Being cared for properly but that you Don't do that by taking away children From their good parents for the good Parents it doesn't make any sense at all It's just crazy well of course bad Parents there's going to be a minority Of psychopaths but there's going to be Just as many Psychopaths among the Social workers so you know that's just Not a good argument so that's why that Argument makes me so mad well it's a It's an absolutely idiotic argument and It's driven by an underlying notion that

The state has the right to reconstruct Humanity itself in the name of some Utopian Vision right there's no excuse For it it's appalling what are the Exactly in detail to the degree that you Can provide them what changed with Premier Smith's new legislation in terms Of restrictions like what did what Exactly did she restrict and how are Those restrictions on Um on these mutilating and sterilizing Procedures to be quite Frank what are The restrictions that are now in place On those Procedures so I think probably comes out To three main areas well four if you we Can talk about sport in a minute but uh Three main areas first is that parents In our Province will have to be informed Uh if their child is trying to talk About things like changing pronouns or These typ informed by schools correct That they can't that that can't be held Back from parent parents need to know What is taking place with their children So that's one uh second is to band uh Underage uh any underage surgeries that Would change either top or bottom is Often how how we've expressed that Surgeries that would change somebody's Body uh and then lastly was uh stopping Hormonal treatments for the purpose of Transition uh below uh for minor okay Okay great now that's so that's okay so

That is that already instantiated in Legislation that's already happened or It has not happened it's been announced That that's what we're going to do so That's what the primer did she went out She uh made very clear where we're going This is Our intention and that we will Be coming forward shortly with Legislation to make that happen Okay so One of the things I would recommend by The way and I know this is gratuitous Advice but it might be useful don't use Top and bottom that's a euphemism put Forward by the by the psychopathic Predators who are pushing this agenda It's castration and mist Toy right got it and and use the blunt Terms because it's not cutesy top and Bottom you know not in bit there's Nothing about what is being done on the Surgical front that's the Le least bit Cutesy Yeah it and that you're right to Make clear that is taking a child's body And permanently changing it removing Parts or adding Parts uh for for Individuals that we actually at this Moment would not even allow to make a Decision to drink in a bar exactly Exactly yes adding pseudo Parts Malfunctioning experimental pseudo parts Right right while all the while at the Moment at the same time pretending that They're the same as the real thing which

They're not at all in any way right and Then I want to add the fourth thing that She's doing that we're doing for our Government under our premer leadership Uh which is to make sure that women can Participate in their Sports and not Being a circumstance where an intact Biological male and or a former Biological male uh can come along and Participate in their Sports and so in Our Province we don't want to be a spot Where hardworking female athlete is all Of a sudden in a uh an m&a fight with a Guy my size I mean it's and I think that Again I want insane EXA 84% I believe is The last poll I saw of my provincial uh Neighbors uh who agree with these points And so I I actually don't believe this Is that controversial I think people Want to make it controversial but Anytime that we're standing up for minor Children and parents working in their Children's lives I think we're in the Right spot so I can share a little bit Of my experience on that front with you Guys um so here's so you're gonna you And you're already in this you're going To get a lot of Angry narcissistic Psychopaths Screeching at you and they're going to Make a lot of noise and they're going to Attempt to damage your moral Reputations if you apologize or back off You'll lose they'll win if you hold your

Course it'll be real intense for about a Month and then everything will shift Radically in your favor and you'll be Seen as Pioneers if you can just Tolerate that intermediary period of Boiling oil you know the sorts of Epithets that that Trudeau and his Demented dimwits are Are are are what are hurling your way You're going to come out of this you're Going to come out of this as the most Forward-looking amongst the most Forward-looking political leaders not Only in Canada but in North America and You could make a big bloody difference All across the continent and maybe in The west more broadly so I would say all The noise you're generating that's a Sign that you've hit the target very Squarely I agree with you and I I I can Assure you uh that the premier and her Cabinet are 100% dedicated to to protect This is about protecting kids in our Mind and and and that if we can't do That as Leaders we have no business Being in these jobs and so we're uh We're very comfortable we're going to Stay the course we're going to protect The children of Alberta and we're going To continue to make sure this is the Best province in our country to live in Okay so so two one final question What Proportion of the tent cities do you Think you've dealt with already and how

Fast do you think this process is going To roll out so we we've got a little Over 200 of these 10 cities down already I think we the last last report I saw is We got about another 78 to go now what's Going to happen now we're going to start To see them try to pop back up again so There's going to be another round where We're going to go in there and this is One of the reasons why we're not playing Around with notice this is not Acceptable able in our cities and we Will move quickly to support the police To take down the next round and Eventually people will learn that's What's going to take place and then I Think you'll see two things happen You'll probably see some of this Pressure move into our underground Transit systems and we're going to move The same way there we're going to say That's not going to be acceptable here We're going to use the same process We're going to support the police to get People to supports and then I suspect What happen is we'll probably start to See some popups just for nights and then They move and at that point we've had Success with permanent tent cities and Then we'll re-evaluate where we go next And so I we we're very dedicated to this My boss prer Smith has told me this must Be done and uh when she tells me Something's going to be done it's going

To be done all right all right well it Sounds like the next person from your Government that I could talk to and Should perhaps if he'd be willing as Minister Williams yes so we could set That up and uh I know he he's a big fan And is would be excited to do it in fact He's probably a little irritated with me That I got to go first so if you get him Up he'll be excited all right all right Well I think we should I think we should Definitely set that up and then we Should probably also do another podcast With the with the minister responsible For higher education because we could Have a very fun conversation about that Too I would I would like to watch that One so any way I can help uh get that Connected happy to do it let do let's do Both of those let's do both of those I Thought this went very well and so thank You very much for your time today and For answering all my impertinent Questions questions and for walking Through all of this in detail I'm hoping That Alberta can provide a Model for the rehabilitation of these Tent cities across North America because People really don't know what to do you Know and you guys have a pretty Comprehensive plan now you know it's Reasonable to be skeptical about it Because you're dealing with a hard Problem but the fact that you've already

Removed 200 of 300 tent cities you know That shows some real will here and it Doesn't look to me like you've taken a Particularly severe beating on the Public front for doing this right it's Caused a lot less furer for example than Premier Smith's move on the on the Transgender affirming front it's it Certainly has been quieter I will tell You it's exactly what you said we we got Hit real hard the first couple days as We announced it it was really loud and We just stayed the course because we Knew we were doing the right thing and And you know both the chief of police And Emon and myself have received more Positive corresponden on this than any Other I've done in my 10 years in oh That well say there you go that that's So well that's the advantage of doing The the long-term right thing like People will swing around behind you if You can if you can withstand that Initial trial by fire all of these Things they're great opportunities right Because if you can see a serious problem And you can offer a solution then you Know you've actually done your job and Wouldn't that be a wonderful thing yep Exactly more of us should probably do it Yeah well we should also set up a talk With the minister of energy because Dan Let's let's do that because Danielle Also offered um uh announced when I was

In Alberta with Carlson and with uh with Lord Conrad black that that that Alberta Is planning to double its gas and oil Production and that's a real slap in the Face to Steven Gilbo and he's certainly An individual who richly deserves at Least one and so I think we could have a Very productive conversation about the True benefits of the fossil fuel Industry in Alberta and what and how Canada could Thrive and truly Thrive and Offer its its resources to the world if Um you know if if Canadians could get Their head screwed on straight about Just exactly what was what and so let's Do all of those that would be good I Will my guys are in the room with me Here right now so we we'll not them all We'll connect them with your people I Spent three years as minister of Environment Alberta so gabo was one of My counterparts uh we won't get into That today but I've got a few stories And this is not a friend of this Province that's for sure he is uh he's Not a friend of Canadians where they're Headed is is to a very dark place uh Dark cold a dark and cold was about to Say and very cold place so Yeah we'll get you connected with Everybody though okay okay so for Everybody watching and listening you'll Know uh if you've attended other Podcasts that I'm going to take another

Half an hour with my guest on The Daily Wire plus side and we're going to talk About the Genesis of his political Career and I would say also his hopes For the future because I'd like to know About that and the conservative Vision In Alberta for the future and so if You'd be inclined to join us for the Additional half an hour behind the daily Wire pay wall you'd be more than welcome To do that and you could throw a little Support the daily wire plus way which I Would also recommend because they are a At at minimum a Bastion of the free Speech that is becoming increasingly Difficult to come by in our society and That is threatened more and more on Platforms like YouTube which still has The good graces to offer the sorts of Things that we're discussing today so Join us there and thank you very much Sir um I'm looking forward to talking to Your colleagues you bet yeah thanks for The forthright discussion Bye-bye [Music]