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Season 5 Episode 2
00:00 Intro
01:52 The bullet journal origin story
03:44 What is the bullet journal method in a nutshell?
06:34 Growing up with ADD
10:30 Building and selling your business
20:16 Finding your most successful productivity tool
23:20 The core principles of the method
34:03 Using intentionality and rituals to organise your time
48:46 The process of migration
54:35 How your daily log works
59:25 Misconceptions about the bullet journal
01:03:50 Turning an idea into your business
01:10:41How do you feel about the art side of bullet journaling
01:19:13 How did you feel about the kickstarter blowing up?
01:24:54 The writing and design process
01:33:39 Understanding values and anti values
01:39:39 How do you feel about 3-10 year planning?
01:49:16 The bullet journal app
01:52:34 The future of the bullet journal
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Deep Dive is the podcast that delves into the minds of entrepreneurs, creators and other inspiring people to uncover the philosophies, strategies and tools that help us live happier, healthier and more productive lives.
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I created this methodology to help me Become a lot more productive I Accomplished my goals one after the Other and it was never enough there's Got to be something more I had the System to help me become super Productive but then all of a sudden I Took this system and started focusing it On my inner life what is it that I want And start focusing my own productivity Tools as to becoming more productive With my own self-awareness what you're About to hear is an interview with Writer Carol who is the inventor of the Bullet Journal method I like to describe It as a mindfulness practice that's Disguised as a productivity system it Helps you organize what you're doing but More importantly it helps you clarify Why you're doing what you're doing Ryder Is incredibly inspiring he has ADD which Cause various problems for him in Childhood best way I can describe it is Like trying to catch the rain so I Invented the bullet Journal method as You know it now because I needed it Throughout his career as a web and user Interface designer he found various Different tools that he could use to Stay productive and those tools are what Eventually morphed into the bullet Journal Journal method which is now World famous he's written a book called The Bullet Journal method which is New
York Times bestseller in the Conversation we talk about how he came Across the method how he discovered it And how various people over time have Used the method to level up their own Intentionality and mindfulness and Productivity But ultimately that's what You're trying to do as a designer is Help people create tools to remove some Kind of friction from somebody's life And eventually what was so funny is that The tool that I was using to organize Myself was the thing that would Ultimately become the tool that I could Share at the moment according to the YouTube analytics 81 of you who are Watching this on YouTube have not yet Hit the Subscribe button and so if You're for example in the now 81 of People who are watching this on YouTube But who are not subscribed to the Channel I would love it if you could do So and would be awesome to get that Number down to 50 and it would be cool To get like 50 50 sub non-sub ratio just Just for fun all right writer thank you So much for coming on the podcast this Is this is like super super weird Coincidence so I I started bullet Journaling about a month ago and I Mentioned it in my newsletter and you Happen to read my newsletter or see my Newsletter and then you like just sort Of tweeted at me and then we got talking
And here we are in London like a few Weeks later uh like firstly thank you so Much for coming down this is going to be It's gonna be interesting Um so like so so much stuff to talk to You about I'd love to talk about kind of The the origin of the bullet Journal Stuff and I guess what you're doing These days but I guess like you know how When you when you connect the dots Looking back how did all of this start How did you end up the inventor of this Bullet Journal thing which probably most People listen to this will have heard of If not if not tried out yeah I would say The origin story as with most things is Necessity so I grew up learning Disabilities back before the internet Where the only tool I had available to Me was pen and paper And so I started trying to figure out Ways to be organized and productive and I tested out everything I possibly could And I had no resources available to me Right you can't look something up like How do I add and that's just not there So I started developing different Templates different approaches different Tools most of which didn't work and then Every once in a while something did and Then something more and something more And then you do that for 20 years and You start coming up with a system where All these different tools start working
On top of one another So I invented the bullet Journal method As you know it now because I needed it And I still need it I need it all the Time you know it's it's people always Have this misconception I'm like some Super Hyper productive human being and It's not the case I created this tool Because there were challenges that I had But they were different than the ones I Thought Initially which we can get into yeah a Little bit so I guess just as as a bit Of context for people who might not have Heard about the bullet Journal method Like what is it in a nutshell and then We can kind of explore origin story and Like the The Arc of sure yeah I like to Describe it as a mindfulness practice That's disguised as a productivity System so it helps you organize what You're doing but more importantly it Helps you clarify why you're doing what You're doing so it revolves much more Around purpose than process but it Provides both hmm that's interesting Because like I've I've been hearing About it on the Grapevine for years I Think I first read it about read about It on Life Hacker or something like Classic and in my mind it was just like Oh it's it's a productivity system like I wouldn't have like the word Mindfulness would have been very low on
The list of things that I would have Used to describe it before I knew about The thing yeah like what what what's Going on there is is that a common Common reaction that you hear it's a Common reaction because A lot of people initially with bullet Journal when they get to know about it Comes through social media which is Great and it's it's both a blessing and A curse in that like a lot of people see A bullet Journal but when you encounter Something on Instagram or Pinterest Generally speaking that audience is much More visual so chances are their Interpretations will also focus on the Visual aspect of bullet journaling which Means that it can be very creative Interpretation or expression of bullet Journal languages Completely unnecessary Um so a lot of people see these Incredibly decorated beautiful bullet Journals and like that's what bullet Journaling is but it can be To me and to a lot of other people There's a lot that's lost when you see It online so I understand why people are Like oh it's like an artistic notebook It can be but that's really that's Really what I try to get across with a Lot of my work it's trying to figure out What you need it to be that's the Essence of bullet journaling it's like
Trying to develop a tool based on A very specific intention So that's that's where I like to focus My my all my work is what is the Intention what it what problem are you Trying to solve what goal are you trying To accomplish and then assembling the Tools around that If that makes sense that's where the Mindfulness comes on why do you need to Get organized what do you need to get Organized about that kind of thing I Feel like I'll productivity and process Often Um I think comes before the purpose and That's a huge issue at least it was for Me now as I was developing this Methodology I was kind of guilty of the Same thing if I become productive then I will accomplish my goals okay great What happens after you accomplish your Goal Not much right not much it's like it's Done But when you accomplish your goals in Service of something bigger whatever That is right then all of a sudden it's Meaningful and that was the missing part For me hmm so you grow up you grew up With ADD what is what is that like What is that like Um I think it's the best way I like the Best way I can describe it is like Trying to catch the rain that's that's
The best metaphor I can come up with It's like everything seems important and You don't know what to focus on is that This thing is it this thing is it this Thing is it this thing so you spend all Your time trying to catch everything and Then everything falls through the cracks So that was my challenge like trying to Catch the rain and then my The challenge was that that's impossible And trying to solve for that challenge Is also impossible and over over time I Guess what I started to realize Is trying to understand why you're Standing it in the first place like what Is it that you're trying to do what is Meaningful to you and then trying to Organize around that like having a core Organizing principle before you find the System if that makes sense So how did you go about doing that I Guess before the system develops yeah Well sure I mean the system actually Helped me make that realization which is Interesting at first it helped me become Really focused and productive so it Accomplished those things check check And that's also why the productivity Part of bullet Journal I think was the Thing that caught on really quickly Because as soon as people start doing it They get things done things just start Happening And once you start doing it for a while
Something shifts you hear this often and Then it was interesting which was Something we can get into like you start As a productivity method and then all of A sudden something changes it's not like How it organized something but it's like Why is this important the the the the The question shifts you know it's like Okay I'm getting more done but I'm not Feeling any better or more accomplished And it's like okay so why are you doing Those things like oh I don't I don't Really know it's like okay maybe that's The question you begin with and for me To provide a very clear example For me I created this methodology to Help me become a lot more productive Right I accomplished my goals one after The other I got the raise I got the Position I got the thing and it was Never enough right it's like okay maybe It's just the next step it's the next Step and every time I took the next step I found myself in the same place which Is like there's got to be something else There's got to be something more And this was very much in the the Corporate ladder and then I'm like okay Maybe the problem is that I'm working For other people so maybe I should work For myself and start my own company Which is something that I ended up doing For two years me and this other guy Created this startup and this was on top
Of our full-time job so we did the whole Startup thing you know like sleeping Under the desk ordering pizza all that Stuff for years and then we launched This product And it was successful And it didn't matter it didn't make me Feel any better the work was great Because I love doing the work I love Design work I love figuring out problems And all these things but when it finally Launched it didn't matter and I'm like Why don't I feel any better it's like I Thought I wanted this and I clearly I Don't so what is it that I actually want What do I care about and all of a sudden There's a big question mark there and I Realized that I was accomplishing other People's goals it's like as a designer The whole thing is to have your own Design company or to have your own Product or to be the art director and I Did all those things and all that wasn't True right it was I've accomplished Other people's goals and realized that It didn't mean much to me So all of a sudden I had the system to Help me become super productive But then all of a sudden I took the System and started focusing it on I would say say like my inner life right What is it that I want and start Focusing the same tools as My own productivity tools as to becoming
More productive with my own I guess Self-awareness And that's where it became super Interesting noticing my own patterns What do I respond to what do I not Respond to what what do I want more of What do I want less of and that's where It became really interesting okay loads More questions on that front oh yeah Before we go there so what was the day Job and then how did that transition Into the startup like what was that Arc Sure so I um I guess you could say that I was a ux Designer for most of my career started And the early web website design stuff When that wasn't common actually I mean I'm probably dating myself here what are We talking Um I would say early 2000s right okay Yeah so people didn't really have Personal websites but that was happening So I started designing a lot of websites For small businesses and then eventually I started designing websites for bigger And bigger businesses and then I started Designing web tools like actual apps and That's kind of what I focused on I liked This idea of creating systems that help People accomplish things And a lot of that system's thinking Actually went back into the analog space Because I found that in a very much part Of the development of bullet Journal was
Like the idea of like applying a certain Set of principles to my own life and Then actually treating my life as a Product was a really interesting shift Right like what are the challenges what Are the bugs what are the features not Tackling it that way nice yeah I think So I I think I I did I built my first Website in like 2006 and I remember Um kind of It was it was it was in it was in like The computer room at school some kid had Like right clicked on the Google home Page and clicked view source and like Internet Explorer floor or whatever it Was at the time I was like whoa this Guy's a hacker because you can see all This the code and things and I was like All right cool copy paste dot HTML be Like why isn't the image showing it's Like okay cool I need to reference the Image locally and and started tinkering With stuff and then got into the world Of like yeah trying to design websites For small businesses to make five ten Dollars here and there trying to Undercut everyone in India who was Trying to do the same thing Um were you working for yourself working For an agency what like what did that Look like in in the early days at first I was working for myself and then I Started working as a perm all answer at Different actually fashion companies who
Were putting more and more emphasis on Their web presence so they had like very Basic sites and then they hired people Like me to kind of Zip it up a little bit right you know I Had interactive shopping experiences or Have digital campaigns like falling snow And yeah winter landscapes and make it a Little bit more creative and so you did That for a few years and then decided to Do the startup alongside yeah a few Years I did that for like 10 years yeah So at some point I got to be like a Senior art director at a major fashion Company specifically for web and like That wasn't it right I thought I'd Wanted this thing and it didn't you know The work was fine and I was grateful for It but it wasn't necessarily fulfilling So that's when I was kind of like Hmm maybe it's time for me to work for Myself because I put an incredible Amount of hours for other people's Dreams and it wasn't even people it's Just kind of like a huge corporation in An industry that I wasn't particularly Interested in this was just a job so I'm Like okay let's have something a little Bit more personal something that might Be more meaningful to me and I'll create My own company so me and What became a friend of mine but at the Time was just a developer he had an idea Which was to create like
Paint by numbers 2.0 are you familiar With paint by numbers yeah so He created an algorithm that would take A photograph and then create a custom Paint by number map and so we did that And we get like a custom paint set and Everything and so you could paint a Picture of your kids or your dog or Something like that that's nice yeah it Was a really cute product and we worked On it and it was a lot of interesting Problems to solve And we were proud of the product but It's like I don't know just paint by numbers that Wasn't that wasn't it for me right if This is a cute product I'm proud of what We did it was high quality but it just Wasn't interesting as a business it Wasn't fulfilling to me And yeah so I learned a lot in that time like Creating and launching my own business Yeah and I realized that it had That it was empty there was something Missing and that's what happened later So we sold the company because both of Us felt the same way he felt the same Way it was really interesting we had This kind of existential crisis Simultaneously You know we were proud of what we had Done and we were done with it So it's like what happens next so when
When did you sell the company uh I would Say probably maybe 2008 something like that okay Yeah so you sell the company in 2008 Like what happened the next I continue To do work Um As a permal answer I guess all over the Place working for companies that I Thought were interesting I tried to go More for big digital agencies because One thing I did like is having a variety Of different types of things to work on But then I started also volunteering for A lot of tech non not-for-profits and That's where things started to shift Right because like I had volunteered Before And that's fine but all of a sudden when I realized that I could like use my tech Skills at scale that was interesting Right yeah so I spent an hour working Here I helped two people I spend an hour Working here and the tech that I'm Working on can serve 20 000 people And that was a really interesting Concept that never occurred to me it's Like we ship this one feature that I Designed and all of a sudden there's Housing available for 10 000 people you Know or easier that kind of thing and That was really fascinating and that Felt very different that felt very Meaningful so like this little thing
That I was working on on the side like Helping these startups some of which Made it some of which didn't was just Significantly more fulfilling than my Day job I'm like God I wish I could do Something like this full-time because You know as a designer I don't know how It was like for you but a big part of This is like I want to solve people's Problems right and in web design it's Like sure like getting Insurance faster Is solving somebody's headache I mean some of these problems weren't Necessarily interesting but ultimately That's what you're trying to do as a Designer is help people create tools That remove some kind of friction from Somebody's life And eventually what was so funny is that The tool that I was using to organize Myself and Orient myself Was the thing that would ultimately Become the tool that I could Share and would help the most amount of People with any of the with any of the Work that I would end up doing What did it feel like so Having having a job where you're doing The thing that you enjoy like you're Using your skills but it feels Unfulfilling compared to doing the same Thing and it feels fulfilling just Because because of the I guess the Industry that you're working in if
You're helping people get housing that I Imagine feels much more rewarding than Helping someone spend more money on a Fashion website for example yeah buyers Some other set of pants yeah so what Does that feel like like what and I I Guess I'm asking because I've been in The fortunate positions so as to not Really have had a job that felt Unfulfilling in some way because I went Like straight from Medical School into Medicine into this YouTube stuff all of Which I feel I just ticked the Fulfilling box along the way and very in Varying degrees yeah so yeah what's What's that like where you're like doing The thing you love like you're not doing It for the reason they care about I think it's I think people just have this Realization at some point that their Career is not really fulfilling you know You have these all these goals and Sometimes you accomplish those goals so Quickly that that momentum can Remove a little bit of the existential Terror of like looking at what you're Doing really deeply and it's like is This meaningful is this what I want to Do it's like okay well I got the raise Cool like I'll you know buy a house and Then you focus on the house and then you Can fix up the house and like meanwhile Like your life keeps going and it keeps
Going so there's ways to distract Yourself from it but I mean you hear This thing called a midlife crisis and I Feel like that's the moment that most People ask that question you know for me I think I don't know if I had my midlife Crisis early but I feel like at some Point the distractions go away and then There's this kind of subtle Reckoning Where you're like This doesn't mean anything to me right And having that moment I think this is part of the human Experience and there's nothing Particularly wrong with that it's what Happens next that I find really Interesting right and how do you avoid Having that moment it's just like I Think if you don't ask yourself these Questions regularly Eventually they will appear right but if You do you can kind of Figure this process out like what is Meaningful to you what what is your what Are your values you ask in small little Steps and you start becoming familiar And you approach your life with Curiosity instead of this moment where You're like oh my God everything's Meaningless and I don't know what I'm Doing and this is like massive Self-judgment And yeah I I found it so much more Helpful to kind of tack as I said kind
Of treat my life as a product or as this Big experiment and start asking myself Like what am I curious about is this Meaningful and how do I have more of This how do I have less of this and Approach it from a very systematic Perspective right like the whole thing With the bullet Journal method is I would say the thing that's lost is What happens off the page which is most Of it it's the way that you think about Your life that changes and that's really The exciting part for me but yeah that's Hard to share with people it is yeah so What sort of tools were you using to Stay productive before it coalesced into The method everything I was like a Hopeless early adopter it's like a new App I would be on it immediately and Sometimes it helped me hear or sometimes It helped me there but it's it's it's I Don't know Um I mean you name it I probably use the App I use the system I used all of it And what's funny is that I learned so Much more after I started sharing like Bujo work right people are like oh have You heard of David Allen I'm like no I Hadn't I probably should have at some Point but like all these great thinkers In the space and I'm like okay what do They say about this stuff and it's been Really exciting for me because I'm as Much of a student of all this stuff as I
Am a teacher and So yeah I continue to use stuff all the Time you know like I love this stuff It's fun it's like okay how do I make More how do I make better use of my time And so what were the dots that connected For you to result in that oh this is This is the pen and paper based method That I have found the most most helpful Like having having tried these like Thousand different things Um okay so there are a couple things There one is it's not done which is the Fun part right like here are the here's The minimum viable product that's kind Of what I share with people like you're The fewest amount of tools I've found to Be successful over the longest period of Time try them on for size and see if They work for you Um I think that I never intended on Sharing this so maybe we can approach it From that angle what happened was that People always saw me sitting down with a Notebook especially in the as somebody That's a digital native and working in Digital design people like you always Have a notebook what are you doing in There I'm like well Thinking that's what I'm doing I'm Trying to figure out stuff drawing Whatever it's a canvas and then people Would be like well so how would you deal With this problem or how would you deal
With this problem or how would you Organize this and I would show them like One piece of the methodology more at That time just what I was doing and I Found over and over again that no matter What their background was it would be Useful Especially for people who only did Things online And I was like huh maybe I should share Some of this stuff Um And that's kind of what ended up Incentivizing me to coalesce everything To share it and so I stripped everything Out but the most helpful tools that the Things that had worked over the longest Period of time and a lot of that's just About writing down your thoughts that's The core of it like in bullet Journal You write down three things the things You have to do the things that you Experience and the things you don't want To forget and then you come back to Those things in regular intervals that's The greatly Diminished version of bullet journaling It's writing things down and reading What you wrote and trying to connect the Dots over time So those three three those three things Were writing down what you have to do Tasks events and notes tasks events and Notes
Okay yeah I guess that's kind of what Mine looks like as well but because so I Guess you must get this a lot but I like I I first I mean I'd heard of the the Method like years ago on some random Productivity blog or something I always Thought oh interesting like um I'll file That in for later to try at some point And then uh my friend Matt diabella did A video recently where he tried bullet Journaling and I was like oh okay Interesting like it's not too artsy foxy Like I I sort of imagined it would be Sure and then I started watching a few Other videos about it I was like oh this Actually is really helpful like I I need A way to look at my year for the whole Year because I think like the problem With Google Calendar is that like it's Forces you to think very zoomed in and If you try and zoom out like suddenly You can't see anything at all because Now it's just little dots on a thing and I was like oh this is this like future Log thing it seems great oh like month Of the glance yeah that'll be really Helpful just being able to see my Calendar at glance and figure out like You know where where do I have blocks in My calendar where I should probably take Some time off and go on holiday or Something and Oh you know this daily thing of like Actually figuring out what your most
Important task is for the day or what Tasks you have to do I was sort of doing A version of that and so we we released Our own like stationary line which where It's like every day is a page and it Asks you three things you're grateful For I'll see what's your most important Task and sort of the my to-do list Things that you might you might want to Do with like a little brain dump area Um I was like I'm also I'm already kind Of using this this sort of most Important task method let's try this Bullet Journal thing and then I came Across the book And I listened to the book on Audible And I think that might have been a Mistake because it was it was like hard To imagine what was going on when just Listening to it on Audible and so I Think that that's one of the tricky Things about this because I guess it's It is somewhat visual but I guess like With with that caveat in mind so like What are the like the core principles I Guess of of the method Um and obviously people oh we'll put Links to the the book which I recommend Not getting on Audible because then you Can you can see what's going on when you Get it on Kindle or in real life it Really helps to see what's being talked About for sure Um
Okay Tasks events notes tasks tasks events And notes so I'm trying to think of a Way to have a non-visual yeah version of Describing this I think the best way to Think about it is writing down your Thoughts in a really distilled way so a Lot of people Know how powerful journaling can be Right they hear about all the mental Health benefits that it can have and I Very much encourage long-form journaling But it takes a lot of time right and a Lot of people see it only as an Emotional thing right it's like I Journal when I'm confused or when I'm Sad or when I'm angry and that can be Helpful and then you have bulleted Bullet lists which essentially are for Very specific things this is what I have To buy you know these are my goals these Are all these things so bullet Journaling kind of combines The Best of Both Worlds where it helps you organize Your thoughts as bulleted lists that's One component there's two parts of the Bullet Journal method the system and the Practice the prac the system is how you Organize information and then the Practice is more about what you do with What you write down I like to say that You know writing down writing things Down is only the beginning So you write down the things that you
Experience so your events the things That you don't want to forget which are Your notes and then uh your tasks things That are actionable right okay sorry Please go ahead and each one of those Has a different icon in front of it so As you're writing things down you're Also categorizing your thoughts in real Time And the only way to make that Sustainable is figure out a way to write Down less right you're really trying to Focus on what really matters and that is Part of the practice right you're Listening to somebody and you're like it Focuses it helps you become an active Listener right it's like what about this Is the takeaway specifically so you're Starting to Think about what's being said in a very Different way because like hearing and Listening are two very different things So it's okay what about this is Important and then using your own words To capture it and that process as well Like using your own words helps you Retain it better and helps you make it More personal all these things and You're doing this throughout the day so Information that's coming from the Outside being filtered through your Brain and then being added to your Bullet Journal so that's like a big part Of it capturing things
And you record so the Bullet Journal Method Works in a cycle which is record Reflect refine and respond and those are Like the four steps so you record by Writing things down Then you reflect on the things that you Wrote down and try to come up with Insights and different takeaways and Then you take action accordingly right That's essentially what you're trying to Do the bullet Journal creates both A framework for you to organize your Information but also how to think about Your information and then make all that Insight actionable that's the big part Like what do you do with what you learn All right we're just going to take a Quick break from the podcast to Introduce our sponsor which is very Excitingly heal I have been a paying Customer of huel since 2017 so it's been About six years now that I've been using Hume fairly regularly I started eating Hill in my fifth year of medical school And I've been using heal regularly ever Since because you know I like to be Productive I you know my calendar is Full with a lot of things and often I Don't have the time or don't make the Time to have a particularly healthy Breakfast or a particularly healthy Lunch my favorite flavor is salted Caramel because 400 calories you get 40 Grams of protein which is absolutely
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I think I got this i got this from the Book because initially I watched a few Of these like fancy artsy people with Cool really cool spreads and stuff And then I listened to the book I was Like oh okay this is actually simpler Than I was kind of imagining it to be And one of the things I really liked About it is that it's it's very like Modular like you can just Slot in the modules or the the pages That work for you and just get rid of The ones that don't yeah Um and so mine has I mean over the last Like 30 days or so of doing this it's Really well it's it's evolved a fair bit And I imagine it will continue to evolve In terms of what I personally find Useful but I found that like and I don't Know if this is the actual notation but I found that I use one symbol for like Events Um I use a symbol for tasks and I use Them for notes you know and I I also do Like morning pages in it so like you Know writing a few pages of by hand of You know just basic journaling how I'm Feeling what I'm thinking about some Stuff relates to the book and sort of Brainstorming titles and things and I Have this um at the start of the month A double page spread that has sort of Things I'm grateful for and homework for Life are you familiar with homework for
Life so there's a book called story Worthy by Matthew Dixon best one of the Best books I've ever read um I talked About like how to become a better Storyteller and the idea is that every Single day at the end of the day you Write down the most story worthy moment That happened that day something that Made this day different from any other And you just write it down in a few Words and he does it unlike a Google Sheet or something just so he's got the Things and I've been doing this on and Off for a few years but I realized that Hey if I'm if I'm using the bullet Journal every day which I which I now am Then tagging tagging on this sort of Just nightly journaling thing just like What was one thing that made today Different and so I've been doing that Since September the 1st up until September the 21st so I'm like a day out Of date here Um and it's been so nice to have a Physical thing to kind of ground myself Weirdly like in the morning I get out the notebook and I'm like What's my most important task for today Cool can I feel you know can I be Bothered to do the morning Pages yeah Depending on how I'm feeling sometimes I Type it out sometimes I write it by hand And then in the evening you know what Are some things I'm grateful for and
What is my story worthy moment and it's Sort of like bookends the day nicely in Terms of the morning and the evening Practice Um yeah like And so so the the method is mindfulness Disguises a productivity system yeah Like From what we've talked about so far task Events notes that doesn't feel like it Would help you answer the question of Like why am I why am I here on this Earth yeah so I think the best way to Think about the bullet Journal method as A whole is as your laboratory for life Right and I like using a notebook because it's a Blank page essentially and you create Whatever game or goal you want to play Every day And what's beautiful about this Methodology it's powered by your Intention what is it that you're curious About what do you want more of what do You want less of and then you start Finding the tools that's help support That I provide a bunch of different Tools to help you organize your thoughts And different rituals so daily ritual Weekly ritual monthly ritual those kind Of things to help you check in but a big Part of this is about self-discovery Right so For me the thing that was so challenging
Growing up is people kept shoving Productivity systems down my throat like This will make you smart this will make You more productive but none of them Work the way that my mind worked and a Big part about bullet journaling is Discovering what works for you and that Changes all the time which is what makes It relevant over time right like when You're working nine to five it's one Thing when you become a parent it's Another thing when you start traveling It's another thing when you're reading This it becomes a different thing you Know and that's what keeps on making it Relevant so I provide a basic Foundation That helps Keep everything on the rails if you will But then it's like your your laboratory And you get to experiment with that all Of it revolves around thinking like That's a big part of it how do you Organize your thinking around your Intention around your values around your Curiosity so we have tasks events and Notes that's the most basic Piece of the puzzle right these are the Things that are happening and a lot of Times people think notes are just You know this is what I have to do Tomorrow or you know somebody likes the Color blue but for me notes are like What are you feeling what's coming up Right so like okay I did this thing and
I feel this way and then we have rituals To come back to All of this content and be like oh That's interesting I worked on this Thing and I've been feeling sad all Month Like this project that I thought was Really exciting is actually just really Bumming me out and it's not bringing me Closer to what I want and I wouldn't Have noticed that unless I had read my Own story And that's what you're doing with bullet Journaling you're writing your own story And you're starting to realize when that Story is not making sense or it's not The story you want to tell and then Every morning you wake up and you start Telling that story anew I found that I started I started writing Those sorts of things recently oh like Wednesday the 21st so like two days ago I wrote Um event podcast with Alex and Mateo Event podcast with Tim Um this other thing that was canceled This I think it was canceled and I said That oh I did it uh intermittent fasting 12 to 8 feeding window felt great And I have never written down something Like that before Amy except like the day Before I was like oh you know let me Actually write down how I'm feeling with This bullet journaling type stuff
And just the fact that I now have those Two data points that hey I actually only Ate in between 12 and 8 pm felt pretty Good that's really useful for me for me To know because I probably would have Thought that or felt that in the past But the fact that I hadn't written it Down means that it didn't register with Me in some way And now I'm like oh this intermittent Fasting stuff really has something going For it and today I had breakfast with my Brother so I didn't do that so I'm Curious as to how my kind of how my body Feels and stuff when I don't do that Um Okay so so we've got task event notes Which feels like kind of ground level Like Here in the moment on the like almost on A daily Cadence what are the tasks event Notes what other what other I guess Modules or tools are there that help Guide more like intentionality yeah so Essentially I would say that the Practice is more about intentionality so Every bullet Journal I always encourage People to set an intention what is it That you want to learn about yourself Right or what challenge do you want to Tackle what goal or ambition do you have And then a lot of your notes will be Anchored around that And so that's really helpful it
And in order for that to work you need Rituals right I I prefer the word Rituals over habits because I feel like Habits Like brushing my teeth have you also Send it said for me habits are things There are behaviors that you're trying To make automatic right that's it like The ideal thing is that you go to the Gym and you don't even realize that that Happened I don't know in my own life I've I don't think I've ever created a Good habit that I haven't had to think About a lot Which is why I think rituals are so much More important because a ritual is a set Of behaviors that serves something Meaningful and actually doing those Things requires a lot of attention right So in bullet Journal we don't have Habits we have rituals and we have daily Rituals weekly rituals monthly rituals Yearly rituals and they help us think at Different time scales about our life Right it's what's what's happening today Might not have context yet what's Happening next week doesn't have context Yet but it will help you contextualize The days and monthly and so forth so it Helps us increase the resolution of both Our past and what we want in our future We start identifying our own patterns by Simply reading the story that we're Writing down about our life and when we
Realize it's like oh I really wish I Knew about this then all of a sudden you Can just start taking notes from today Onward about that how are you feeling About your relationship how are you Feeling about your job how is this Project making you feel so you become The author based on your intention on Your focus and that shifts constantly And that's why every bullet Journal is Completely unique to its author what's a What are some rituals that you Personally find helpful I guess daily Weekly monthly annual yeah Um writing is really important for me It's so I have regular intervals of Longer form journaling so for me longer Form journaling is actually quite taxing But it's also immensely helpful so in my Weekly ritual I will have a longer Journaling session about the week gone By for my month it'll be about the last Four weeks that kind of thing of the Year or When I get to the end of my notebook It's about the notebook like what have I Learned And that's really helpful so I've been Doing a lot of that That's a great ritual also just taking The time to read what I wrote like That's a very consistent ritual for mine Of mine just sitting down at the end of The day and like what do I need to do
What do I not need to do so that's Another really important part about Bullet journaling we rewrite a lot of Our content That's a big part where we call it Migration so every day every week every Month we you know pick our priorities And we also move things forward and in That process we make a choice about The things that we are going to keep in Our lives and the things that we let go Of so having rituals where we say no Regularly Is a core part of bull adrenaline it's Not about keeping never-ending to-do Lists it's about having a systematized Way of curating your life on an ongoing Basis based on how your priorities Change your circumstances change so the Rituals are there to recommit to things And let things go and reorganize right So like not only are you moving your Content you're also Incrementally changing the way that you Organize your content it's like not only What you're organizing but how you're Organizing it it's like oh this Collection Is not really working like this health Tracker isn't really doing anything for Me why not I don't know and a lot again This gives us an opportunity to approach Something with curiosity do is this Fitness routine not working for me or is
It the way I'm organizing the fitness Routine And it gives you an opportunity to ask That question and think about it and Then take that insight and then Improve it next month next week so it's An iterative approach to Curating your life I think that's something that I'm not Doing consciously enough or like as Consciously as I would want to just like Really thinking Of the intention behind the thing Because I think Like one thing one thing I have noticed These days is you know I have I have my Personal trainer sessions a few times a Week Um but I never look forward to it I'm Always glad that it's over and I feel Like sometimes the thought strikes me That hmm this thing feels a bit grim and Like when he cancels on me I'm just like Yes thank God for that uh And if I were more intentional about how I was feeling and like writing writing That down like if at the start of the Month I'd be like oh whenever huh I Wonder how I feel about my gym sessions And then I would write down how I feel After each one and then I'd think okay You know what are some other ways to get Exercise I enjoy playing squash how do I
Feel after a squash session feel Freaking great that's a sign to me that Actually Do I really want to do this gym thing Just for the sake of getting slightly Bigger biceps probably not like why Don't I do something I actually enjoy is It is is that sort of along the lines of What you mean by kind of being Intentional about Bingo you know I think That a lot of us Myself included fall into this Trap of like automating a lot of our Lives or trying to and then it's no Surprise that a lot of the things you've Automated feel meaningless or even worse They feel Like a real drain on your energy you Know it's it's really hard to go to the Gym for yourself but when you realize That you're doing this thing because Your health is at stake or like whatever You're doing this exercise because you Want to be around for your kids like Even a thing that's Feels meaningless to you all of a sudden Gets a real sense of purpose so taking a Moment to think about why you're doing What you're doing regularly can help you Reconnect to your purpose your why your Value so even the things that aren't fun Like nobody likes doing the dishes right Very few people but it's a way for you To show your partner that you're
Committed to this relationship so if you Only focus on you not doing the dishes No big deal but if you focus on you Wanting to like have a sustainable and Healthy relationship you're like okay I Know why I'm doing this it does make the Dishes great but it doesn't feel like a Waste of time and that's when things I Think get really dangerous when you feel Like things are a waste of time or They're meaningless and some things are And it's really important to stay aware Of that sometimes we're just doing Things because they snuck into our to-do List and then even things that we were Excited about and become like oh I have To learn French now because Two years ago I thought that was cool And now I feel ashamed that I have done These classes even though I'm not at all Interested in learning French now So you're just curating and letting go Of things constantly based on your Current circumstances So do you have I guess the the term you Use is collections yeah for like the Modules of the bullet Journal kind of Thing so basically collections you can Think of them as a combination of Folders and apps but it's where you put All related content so if it's about a Project chances our projects usually Start as one idea then two ideas and Three ideas over time and then during
One of the rituals you start realizing Like oh actually this is going to be a Great article so I'm going to take all This stuff and put it into a collection Or I I'm going to start a project and I Want to dump all my ideas in there Immediately you create a collection or I Want to create a fitness tracker you Create a collection so that's where you Store related ideas and then you have This thing called the index which kind Of speaks for itself where you write Down the name of that collection so you Can quickly find it again later And then you can quickly find all the Projects and focuses in your life Where So this this idea of of like in Intentionality Where does that come into the system I Guess if if at all which is because I I Guess Yeah like uh I I think Hmm This is a bit of a rambling thought but I find that sometimes The system leads to the behavior that I Want to Develop for example the fact that I I Have a page called gratitude that I fill In every day and the fact that I see a Gap from yesterday means like oh yeah I should I should do this and and Fill that in Whereas normally I might forget to keep
Track of you know things the things I'm Grateful for or this homework for Life Thing where I I write down something Story worthy that happened The fact that I have the page as part of The system means I will I'm doing the Thing so I guess kind of for me what is Something I can do in my bullet Journal That would help me I don't know just be A bit more intentional I guess with with Him spending my time well I mean it Sounds to me like you are being quite Intentional already But a lot of it is just asking yourself Questions is this serving me is this not Serving me the idea of the ritual is That you take the step back and just Look at the things that you're working On is it serving you are you getting Anything out of it why why not and then Based on that reflection if you will you Make a choice do I continue doing this Or do I not and then you understand why It's about being intentional about your Actions and your decisions on a ongoing Basis because life changes and your Focus and your priorities change so it's About recommitting over and over again Letting things go that's what's Intention that's what's intentional for Me it's about aligning your actions with Your values with your beliefs Right over and over again because it Changes
So for example a gratitude log is Wonderful it's it's but it must serve a Purpose right A lot of people do these Things because they're told too you know It's in the productivity space like you Can spend all day doing your morning Ritual you know meditate three hours do The ice bath do you know journaling Everything and if you don't know we've Had no connection to it it won't feel Meaningful so For me productivity is very much about Experimentation to see what resonates With you and learning about yourself it Can serve as a mirror and I find that The notebook is a great it's a paper Mirror right it's reflecting your Choices back at you which one of those Are helping you lead the life that you Want and which ones are not and what are You going to do about that And then you make a choice Do you migrate it do you not migrate it What do you leave behind what do you say Yes to what do you say no to and you're Doing that every day so the choice Doesn't become this major existential Rabbit hole it's like oh my god do I Start this company or not you know yeah Can you describe this process of Migration I guess for people that might Not be familiar with it yeah so the Biggest migration happens once a month And essentially what you do is you go
Back through the previous month and you Look at all the tasks that are still Open I've been doing this for a really Long time and I've never gotten Everything every single thing done so There's two options there a lot of us Are like oh wow I'm lazy I didn't do This stuff and then you beat yourself up And that's the end of it or What I try to advocate for is ask Yourself why did this not get done right From a genuine part of curiosity and Then a journey in place of curiosity And then you start figuring out The reason it was too big it was too Complicated I don't care about this Thing and we use this thing called the Filter where we ask ourselves three Questions Is this thing vital right does this need To get done and vital things are usually Things that would get us in trouble Right rent student loans whatever then The second question is does it matter Does it matter to you or to someone that You love usually it's easier to answer Whether or not something matters to Somebody That You Love But when it comes to us it can be a Little bit of a grayer area right does This still matter to me and it's a very Basic question but oftentimes you see That like the French lessons are a great Great example it's like okay I've been
Migrating this thing month after month After month after month and I have to be Honest with myself I don't care about Learning French anymore and I can just Let that go Right so does it matter yes or no and You get to determine that so you're Being intentional about what you're Recommitting to and then the third Question if you don't know if it's vital Or if it matters are there any Consequences for not doing it ever it Just changes the context around and if You can't think of a single reason or a Single consequence For not doing this thing the chances are It's not vital and it doesn't matter and Then you actually just cross it off you Leave it behind so once a month you're Making a choice of what you want to Recommit to and then You rewrite those things in your next Monthly log So that way you're constantly curating The things that you're allowing into Your life like in the bullet Journal Your tasks aren't just stuff you have to Do these are all experiences waiting to Be born because every action requires Time and attention this is how your life Is constructed this is how your life is Built so you're choosing what you want Your life to consist out of every month And if something isn't even worth a
Moment to rewrite it because people are Always like oh wait I have to rewrite Stuff that's going to take way too much Time it's a waste of time I'm like if Something's not worth a moment to Rewrite it then chances are it's not Adding a lot of value to your life so It's not really A bug it's a feature yeah this was a big A big kind of firmware upgrade I had in My mind for this thing that like exactly This is this thing that you just said That it's not a bug it's a feature I Think I think before I was I I had some Friends who did build a journaling I was Like wait what every month you like draw Out the calendar for the month what a Waste of time and you write down things That you like migrate them from the pre Like screw that like and then I tried it I was like oh I get it like the fact That I am writing down an event multiple Times once in my annual log once in my Monthly log means that AI look forward To it more and B the ones I don't look Forward to I'm like wait a minute why am I doing this thing yeah and so I say no To more things I just looked at sort of The the monthly thing that I did I I Migrated from the previous month sign up To new gym because I'm moving house so I Need to do that cancel subscription with Current gym which I actually completely Forgot about until I just read it now so
I would have in a week from now I would Have seen that and been like oh crap I Actually need to do that get premium Couples therapy with my girlfriend just Because why not I think that's an Important for growing a system for Having lunch with a team I think that's Important Um There was this thing I was thinking Around like do I want to take a Psychedelic and it's like I I don't Actually don't think that's important to Me right now so I could just cross that Because I don't want to migrate it over And sign up for kickboxing I still think That would be a cool thing to do I Haven't signed up yet so I'll just Migrate it over to the next month which Will be I guess October And Now I at least have those written down So whether it gets done or not is Relevant at least I have it written down And I've actively every month decided That the things that I'm migrating to This month are sufficiently important at This point in time And then I'll do them at some point or Not but either way the fact that I've Written them down means that they are There Absolutely and you get a moment to kind Of check in with yourself and feel into
It you know does this feel meaningful Does is this something you're excited About or not and I that might seems like Such a basic question about how often do We ask ourselves that of our to-do list Does this seem exciting is this a game That I want to play you know is this an Experiment that I want to run because It's all experiments all of these things If you're not interested in the Experiment then you better have a really Good reason for investing your very Limited time and attention into you know And that's what's so fun about it I get To decide What am I going to commit to what am I Not going to commit to and why because Then you get to learn about things like These are things that do not Seem important to me because I identify This pattern over years right it's it's The paper mirror I'm not doing well Right now I what can I do about that What what can I ask for help okay like Can I get something off my plate so it Helps you really check in with yourself And connect with yourself Which is something that I find So important and valuable that it's hard To exaggerate and all you're doing is Writing things down on paper I mean sure You can do it in apps like you don't Need to do it a notebook what I love About a notebook it helps you go offline
Immediately you know for me when I was Bullet journaling digitally which I've Tried of course it's like I'm writing Something down that's really meaningful To me and all of a sudden I'm buying Socks I'm like wait a second how did That happen yeah you know what I mean With a notebook You just think differently yeah Yeah okay because of some some very Tactical questions here let's say You know David Allen talks about capture As to tell guys does everyone in the Space let's say you're I don't know In the middle of this podcast you you Have a thought of like oh I need Speaking speaking of socks I should buy Some socks for my wife or whatever what Do you do with that Piece of information in like let's say When when you're in the middle of Something sure I mean in the podcast I Wouldn't do it because this is the most Important part and I I would think that It's rude but uh let's say it wasn't a Podcast and I remember something that I Have to write down goes in my daily log So we have so you take the journal out I Physically take it out of your bag and Then you write it in your daily log yes As like a task so the daily log is kind Of like your inbox it's a real it's the Messiest part of Ebola Journal Essentially of the daily log weekly log
Monthly log to help you with your daily Weekly and monthly rituals so they're Different templates that help you Organize content based on different time Scales and the daily log is designed to Be A good reflection of how crazy our days Can be right so it's like yeah socks you Know make sure you schedule doctor's Appointments send this person flowers I Don't feel great today or I feel great Today you know just whatever comes up You're offloading it from your mind so You can stay as present as possible Which is a big part of this you're just Not distracted because once you write Something down you just feel you feel That like I don't have to worry about The system it'll come up at some point Yes and then okay and how often are you Looking at your data log That I mean it really depends on the day Yeah so my daily rituals in the morning In the evening I spend between five Minutes and half an hour with it Depending on what I need like in the Morning it's usually five minutes okay Here's the priority like if I get this One thing done Today is a victory and it really depends On how much work I have what point what I'm focusing on what my intention is It's all over the place it's really hard To say how long it takes but at least
Five minutes in the morning and at least Five minutes a night so what what is the Priority today and then looking Backwards like what was the most Important thing today and is there Anything else and then throughout the Day I just write things down so I don't Have to think about it it's like oh That's interesting you know oh that's a Good idea but this is a bad idea you Know just your thinking just gets Captured and I don't really worry about And that's what the bullet like in the Bullet Journal it's like I can quickly Categorize my thoughts as well it's like Oh this is just an idea and if it's a Really Important or exciting idea then I Actually have a different symbol for That right I turn the dash which is the Note symbol into a plus which means Expand And that kind of thing so later on I can Sit down and when I have some time like Oh here's three different expands and I'm just going to write about that or That's going to turn into article no That's a good idea I'm going to start Taking that that's good because I often Have like ideas for videos Where I've sort of been thinking like Hmm what do I do with a video idea Because it feels like that's the sort of Thing that it makes sense to write about
On the computer because it goes into the Motion and all that crap but Yeah I can Mark things as video ideas Yeah I mean that's one thing that's so Cool about this you make it yours right You do what works for you I mean Learning what works for you is earned You don't know from the beginning you Run these experiments like this is Working this is not working but yeah I Use the Plus for video ideas too usually For article video ideas and for uh Journaling prompts like sometimes I'll I'll get stuck on an idea or an event That's either upsetting or confusing or Something like that and I can't sit down The middle of the day I'm like okay I'm Gonna have like this existential Journaling session I've I've got stuff To do so I just write down the one Bullet with a plus and it's incredibly Helpful it says like okay I don't have To focus on that right now and when I do Have time it's like now my book is full Of prompts that I can actually unpack This oh this is great because I I have Like a nightly journalingy type thing Where I mostly do it on a computer Because I can just type way faster and I Feel like it's been copy paste it will Into a video Etc sure but what I haven't Done is actually just have the bullet Journal open in front of me with like The keyboard so that I can be like oh
Yeah let me expand on this idea and then I'll expand on the idea normally I have Bullet journal in the bag and then I Kind of see those two things as being Separate but I can absolutely bring them Together and connect connect them up That feels feels very exciting I mean For me like you're very deeply in the PKM space for me the bullet Journal also Solves a huge problem the PKM space it's Just like what goes into your PKM right So it's kind of like oh here's the plus That goes into in my case Rome so like I'm a huge Rome guy but that's how that Works it's like okay log that that's Going to become an article That kind of thing and I can find it Really quickly because as your bullet as You're actually bullet journaling or Rapid logging as I call it you can just Read the margins of your pages and be Like oh here's an idea here's an idea Here's an idea here's an idea It's part of the design geekery of the Layouts no it's great so okay so how What what do you what do you feel like People must get wrong about bullet Journaling I think the most common Question or the com let's say the most Common concern that I get is like I'm Not an artist I can't bullet Journal And that's always Disheartening because if you see the Core of bullet Journal you don't need to
Be able to draw a straight line in order To Bullet Journal it's very much about Just writing down your thoughts you can Make it elaborate and you can make it Beautiful but mostly people think they Have to be an artist and it's really not About that it's as simple as this Writing down your thoughts in a line or Two literally that's it So For me it's about setting an attention What is it that you're trying to Accomplish how can this tool serve you And then letting it unfold that way Seeing it as an experiment and seeing What works and what doesn't and the Thing that's so beautiful about what is It a laboratory for right I mentioned it Is a laboratory it's for you learning About yourself seeing what tools you can Build to solve problems for the way that You think And the only way you're going to figure That out is by doing it and learning From it and like okay this layout is Really effective this one is not next Month I'm going to iterate I'm going to Iterate I'm going to iterate on the way I organize what I'm focusing on and you Just like learn about yourself very Quickly and it's it can be really fun Yeah one of the things I really love About this is that you actually like Even even though you sort of you have a
Business around this and you've got the Fancy notebooks like you're really Trying to sell anything like anyone can Pick up any old notebook or even just Like a random piece of paper and staple It together with another one and do the Method like it's not that hard and There's load the blog posts and stuff on On the website and on every everyone Else's productivity website around like How they do it so within like 10 minutes Of watching a YouTube video or doing a Bit of research and using just a random Notebook that you have in your house you Can create your own bullet Journal Absolutely oh it was like almost like Exactly a month ago when I first started Doing it where I just like immediately Felt more intentional with how I'm Spending my time But also weirdly I feel like Time has slowed down for me because Every day I take a moment in the morning To figure out what I want to do for the Day and in the evening I write down what Made today different And if I think of the rest of almost the Rest of this year pre-august It sort of felt like it went by in a bit Of a war and I almost can't remember it But these last 30 days Like I'm kind of surprised the month Hasn't ended because I'm like oh yeah It's been you know I've done quite quite
A few things I've done my homework for Life thing the story stuff and it's like I I almost feel surprised when I get to A new week now because I'm like oh I Have to draw out the week thing I'm like Oh yeah it's been a while it feels like It's been a while since I've done that And did you just very weird feeling of Like time slowing down um have you had That like is is that something you've Heard from people yeah absolutely it's Amazing what happens when you take the Time to study your life Because otherwise I mean especially in This digital age Time kind of vanishes and during the Pandemic my time wasn't even a thing Anymore so the way I like to talk about This is like bullet journaling is about Taking time you know people always talk About making time and the truth is that Time can't be made time can only be Taken it can be taken from you or it can Be taken by you And bullet Journal is about taking the Time to figure out what kind of life you Want to live like how are you doing what Are you doing why are you doing it Regularly so it doesn't become this big Existential dilemma you know it's like Why am I doing this today oh That's something I can delegate So that that's time slows down when you Think about it that way and then the
Time moving forward because to me it Becomes much more intentional like sure There's times where I'm not bullet Journaling and things begin to fray a Little bit and it's like oh wow time Begins to speed up And yeah things started falling through The cracks so it's just like hmm it's Like taking a really deep breath and Like looking at your life and being like Okay this is where we are right now What happens next and you get to choose Yeah Um okay let's so let's rewind back the Clock a bit let's say I think it's a 20 2013 you first started sharing stuff About the Boudreaux Um How did the How did your life slash business evolve From like how how did this thing of my My mates at work are asking me how I Manage my to-do list morph into what is Now your full-time job and a business Surrounding it where basically everyone Has heard about what bullet Journal is Yeah I mean I had just rolled off a year uh working On this startup for somebody else I was Just their design director and it was Kind of like a soul-crushing job we get Paid well you know all the things but I Just wanted to work on a personal Project and like okay what can I build That's helpful right now it wasn't the
Best designer in the world not the best Coder in the world but I did happen to Use my notebook in this really curious Way that seemed to be helpful I'm like Okay so why don't I sit down and Actually build a website showing people How I use my notebook yeah And so in 2013 I sat down for like two Three weeks and then just systematized Everything were formalized that I guess Would be the better term right okay what Is the I need some language here to Describe these processes because it's Really difficult to describe to other People how you think it's unnatural it's Like this is how I think so I actually Had to create language and all that and In about two weeks I came up with a Vocabulary and then designed this Website to teach people the very basics Of bulletin like it was like a four Minute video and I had to choose a name And bulleted lists and journaling it all Kind of made sense I put it together and Launched that and Soon it got covered by this Lifehacker Website and then this thing and kind of Blew up and I didn't really know what to Do with it because I was like I'm gonna Launch it and that's it it's just there To help people so it was just a Blog at This point yeah where you're just like Oh here's the method here's the method It's helped me I hope it helps you and
It was kind of like a thank you letter To a lot of people in the early web Space just gave away their knowledge for Free like I'm trying to figure this out This is how I solved it and I benefited From that so much early on in my web Career like I don't know CSS or HTML I'd Like look it up online yeah Exactly I have like no idea and all These people sharing this wealth of Information for free and I was like okay My turn here you go and then for the First year I didn't really know what to Do with it but it kept on gaining more And more and more Steam and then Something happened that I didn't realize Or never occurred to me is that people Started using the bullet Journal method To solve challenges that are Completely unknown and unfamiliar to me You know you have people dealing with PTSD and Veterans and stay-at-home moms And you know like all these different Groups started coming up solving very Very different challenges with the same Tool they're just it helped them Organize their thinking in a way and it Was flexible enough to basically play Into any kind of solution that they Needed and I was like oh wow that's Really fascinating like people showing Me how to use the system for problems That I don't have And that got really exciting so in 2014
I was like why don't I build a website Based on how other people use bullet Journal as opposed to me yeah and then I Created a Kickstarter To finance a new site to like actually Hire myself because I need to eat as Well To build a site based on other use cases You know for for parents for teachers For students all these things and As a thank you I partnered with this Company called life to him to create a Notebook for higher tier backers And I launched the kickstarter and then with Like within a day all the notebook tiers Had sold out and people got really Grumpy about like why are the notebooks Limited like I want more notebooks so All of a sudden this thing that was Focused on launching a new website Turned into the beginning of launching a Notebook that specifically designed for Bullet journaling you can use any Notebook you want but this thing adds a Lot of tools that are make it even Faster you know numbered pages and index Like all these different things And that's when bullet Journal turned Into a business people really wanted the Notebook and so I started selling the Notebook and over time the notebook Became more successful and Yeah that was the beginning of the
Business it's such it's such a nice Notebook thank you like how how did you Partner with It was an notebook that I was using at The time so I had used other notebooks Before but I've been using notebooks all My life and then actually I was on a Podcast and somebody's like have you Ever used lifetime notebooks this was Before bullet Journal was ever a Business it was just a Blog essentially Like no I haven't like you should try it And I did I'm like oh wow this is Amazing and so I reached out to them and They're like oh yeah we've actually Heard of you and I'm like would you be Willing to you know do this miniature Collaboration and all of a sudden the Demand was really high and yeah we Designed this notebook from scratch it's It's interesting it's both a blank Canvas but also a really specific and Detailed tool that's a really Interesting Project to balance This episode is very kindly brought to You by wework now this is particularly Exciting for me because I have been a Painful pain customer of wework for the Last two years now I discovered it During you know when the pandemic was in The on the verge of being lifted and I Spent like the whole year just sort of Sitting in my room making YouTube videos
But then I discovered wework and I was a Member of me and Angus my team members We were members of the wework in Cambridge and they have like hundreds of Other locations worldwide as well and it Was incredible because we had this Fantastic beautifully designed office Space to go to to work and we found Ourselves like every day just at nine O'clock in the morning just going to Wework because it was a way nicer Experience working from the co-working Space than it was just sitting at home Working these days what me and everyone On my team has is the all access pass Which means you're not tied to a Specific wework location but it means You can use any of their several hundred Co-working spaces around London around The UK and also around the world and one Of the things I really love about the Co-working setup is that it's fantastic As a bit of a change of scenery so these Days I work from home I've got the Studio at home but if I need to get some Focused writing work done and I've been I'm feeling a bit drained just sitting At my desk all day I'll just pop over to The local wework which is about a 10 Minute walk from where I am at take my Laptop with me I'll get some free coffee From there I'll get a few snacks and It's just such a great Vibe and you get To meet cool people I made a few friends
Through meeting them at wework and it's Just really nice being an environment Almost like a library but kind of nicer Because there's like a little bit of Soft music in the background and there's Other kind of startup Bros and creators And stuff in in there as well and it's Just my absolute favorite co-working Space of all time it's super easy to Book a desk or book a conference room Using the app and it's a great place to Meet up with team members if you're Going to collaborate and you'll live in Different places they've got unlimited Tea and coffee and herbal teas and Drinks on tap and they've got soundproof Boots in which they take Zoom calls and Meetings anyway if you're looking for a Co-working space for you or your team Then I'd 100 recommend we work like I Said I've been a pain customer for Theirs for the last two years which is Why it's particularly exciting that They're now sponsoring this episode and If you want to get 50 off your first Booking then do head over to we.com Forward slash Ali and you can use the Coupon code Ali at checkout Ali to get 50 off your first booking so thank you So much wework for sponsoring this Episode what went into the design of This because like at first glance it Looks like their 1917a5 notebooks with Thicker paper but presumably like you
Know you're a ux designer um and this is The first time I've seen it IRL so There's some some stuff that I'm missing So yeah what was the process like of Designing this that's also version two So version one was so it included the Instructions about how to Bullet Journal Um I had three bookmarks which at the Time wasn't a thing numbered pages and Index so it basically created You created all these tools to make Bullet journaling ever so slightly Easier yeah right and more formal and Then over five six years we got a lot of Feedback and then we came out with Version two so like the Artistry was Something that was never something that I anticipated right but people like Colors and they like different pens and Everything so the next version had Thicker paper and it also has guides Inside the grid to quickly chop up your Pages to create different things and Then there's also You know this this way of quickly seeing What the grid of the page is so you can Create any tool you want inside and The thinnest tool pack ever so all these Like little stickers to help you Annotate your pages or actually take the Stickers and put them in things outside Of your notebook yeah as I said like Most of the bullet Journal work happens Outside of your notebook so the
Lightning bolt for example is for you to Remember an intention that you set like Maybe it's to brush your teeth more Often so you just put the lightning bolt On your mirror you know it's something That you oh that's kind of yeah it's Just put it wherever you want every time You see it it triggers a uh behavior Nice what's the what are the circles for Same thing it's just like if you don't Like lightning bolts you can do that or You can highlight things inside your Notebook that are super important so Nice So yeah that has a detachable notebook So you can actually learn about it while You have the notebook open So that's a guide this is so nice it's So nice it's so like the type everything About this is just so classy oh thank You Yeah I'm a stickler for good typography Um yeah it's a it's fun because I spend So much my time teaching that like being Able to work on physical products is Kind of like I get the design again and I do love that where did the name bullet Journal come from Well I was trying to figure out a way to Create a title where it took away a lot Of the guesswork yeah so it's bulleted Lists and journaling bullet journal and Quite honestly it was like a URL that Was available at the time there's all
These other ones like Omni journal and Like you know all these things but the URL was available it was memorable and Just you know I never anticipated that It would become what it has So I just like got it and launched and Then all of a sudden it blew up and like Oh I'm uh you know I could have spent a Little longer thinking about the name But here we are wow this is so cool Genuinely so nice Um how do you feel about the fact that Bullet Journal has been uh artsified so Much by people Yeah I feel really split about that at First I was really against it I'm like That gets in the way it's like the whole I was worried that people were using it As a way to procrastinate right to like Sit down to plan and they spend like an Hour designing their calendar or like a Yearly calendar I don't do yearly Calendar that was something that just Came up in the community It's pretty helpful I find this super Helpful yeah this is how I learned from The community because I you know I'm in Touch with the community and be like hey Like I noticed that you did a video where you Set up this thing and it looks like it Took you like two and a half hours to do Like when you see my monthly log it
Takes me five minutes like setting up my Template usually five minutes in all of My templates So when I see these things on YouTube I Was at first I was like horrified I'm Like no who's gonna do that right and This is where I realized that for a lot Of people when they do this art it's a Way for them to connect with their Creative side it's like the only place In their life where they can do this Maybe they are you know a dentist or That you know they they were an artist In a past life and they get to sit down It's like for an hour I'm going to take This time for myself and make this thing Pretty and elaborate and it helps me Connect with my values and my goals and Relaxes me and I'm like that's the point You're connecting with the things that Matter to you And in that case I think it's wonderful And it never occurred to me because That's not how I do that right but this Is how you learn from each other When people see that however and feel Like that's the only thing that you do With a bullet journal or that they need To do that to get the value out of it That's when it gets challenging because A lot of people will sit down they've Heard all this wonderful stuff about Bullet journaling and then they see that It's taken somebody four hours to do
Something or it takes them that long or They try it and it looks ugly and They're like okay this this sucks this Is this means nothing to me it doesn't Work And that's kind of heartbreaking because They never really figured out what it Was or never got to what's below it like A lot of the artists that I had spoken With developed the style an intentional Choice at a time yeah right for them the Minimal version of this was not super Helpful but being able to illustrate was But now I have the reverse problem where A lot of people start with the super Elaborate and like I don't get anything Done because I'm spending so much time Setting it up and it's not by choice It's just because they don't know So it's it's uh I always tell people start with the Basics start with something that's Really meaningful to you what with your Intention and then develop your style Over time you know the expression is Very much yours but it has to serve a Real purpose otherwise you know it's It's not going to work Hmm no the fun is great And also it's a balance sure like some People will spend all day designing and Perfectly getting their planner ready And not get anything done you know so You
Being self-aware in that regard is also Important so I have nothing against the Art it's about What is motivating the art yeah Yeah that makes a lot of sense yeah I Think when I first started this uh so I I actually started on an old uh lokiton 1917. and I thought you know what let's Just like MVP this like I don't want to Do all the odd stuff and plus Sharpie Was bleeding through the paper on atgsm Anyway so I was like okay this is fine And then after seven days I was like all Right now September has started I'm Gonna take this and and do it in an Artsy kind of way and I was thinking oh I can make a video about this we set up An overhead rig and everything and just It literally took like three hours to Make it look good and I was like hmm how Do I feel about the fact that this has Taken so long and I I actually did feel Good about it um because to me I like It's it's like that thing you said like Everything I do is so digital that to be Able to get some nice pastel colored Highlighter pens with some Emoji Stickers and stick them on the page I Didn't know what washi tape was I found Out what washi tape was after watching Uh Amanda Rachel's videos like oh this Is a thing it's like oh this is cute Like I get to explore my slightly more Creative on paper side while also just
The fact that I'm taking the time to Draw out the whole year and the whole Month is making me think yeah I I have got lots of stuff back to back There like do I really want to do all These things and so it was like Mindfulness and intentionality at the Same time as expressing creativity which Felt really nice but like last week I Mean at the start of this week we've We've got a whole week of batch filming Of the podcast and so my weekly log is Very Bare Bones I'm just like date line Line line done and I think over time I've become kind of less precious about What's in what's in this and a sort of Embracing some level of messiness Although it still looks somewhere Aesthetic I think Um no it's been it's been really good so Thank you for inventing no sure yeah I Love that you have that you're starting To embrace this journey which is really What happens you know a lot of people Will start like really creatively and Become much more minimal and then Eventually they'll start becoming much More creative with it and more minimal It's like different times in their life And having a tool that's Always there no matter what stage you Are in life I found to be invaluable and I've learned how flexible it can be from Other people and embrace that as well
Because at first I was trying to be very Rigid about this methodology like it has To be this way and I'm like no that's Not how I work that's not how I bet Anybody in the community works like how Can we Embrace flexibility and structure At the same time and for me it boils Down to intention and intention is the Structure and then you You use the tools that help you Experiment and figure out what that Intention means to you Now we can execute it and embody the Things that you value yeah Um so you launched the kickstarter what Happens next like how how are you Feeling when it was blowing up like what Was going through your mind It was a very strange time in my life Because I had just started a new job With a digital agency like the week Before I launched the kickstarter which Was very unintentional it just kind of Became that it happened that way And so I launched the Kickstart I didn't Expect much but it became like this Whole media sensation in itself because It was still in the early days of Kickstarter and it blew up and then I Had to manage the kickstarter That was a nightmare that was an Absolute nightmare October 2015. I've Just brought up the kickstarter yeah it Was uh
You should have a team to help you with The kickstarter because having a Full-time job and running a Kickstarter Especially when you're trying to ship Things internationally like a bad idea But uh you know after I got over that Eventually I had to figure out what was More important to me like this Incredible career that I had been Working so hard on I loved my job I like Was doing everything I wanted to do Or focus on this kind of side gig And eventually I Came to the conclusion that the the way That I can serve people best is to Shepherd this methodology that I never dreamed would have helped other People but it did and I got countless Letters about how it helped different People and if I would only if I could Only be a Nexus point to introduce it to Other people and see how it helped them Then that would be Far more meaningful than anything else That I'd worked on so The choice became pretty easy eventually So you quit the job yeah and went full Time on this yeah How did you know it was going to make Enough money to go full time on this Because because for like the kickstarter Like 79 000 pledged Presumably you could have made more Working at the agency oh yeah New York I
Made way more money yeah at my job Well Um I didn't I didn't uh For me it was a gamble it was a risk I Had a very large community at the time And the business was doing all right but I didn't mind living on less if I could Wake up and really care about what I did All the time and I did So for a little while like that was a Big thing but then came the book deal Yeah so I made the choice I was like Okay I got a transition because I'm not Doing really well in bullet Journal I'm Not doing really well my job because I Was so torn and that's exactly the Opposite of what I'm trying to get Across being intentional about the Choices you make so I was like okay I Gotta practice what I preach here it's Like am I going to do this career that's Really comfortable and exciting or am I Going to do this thing that's super Scary and I don't know what's going to Happen And I was like well how what is What is a core value and its service for Me service is just a core driving Principle and this is the thing that Aligns with that so it became pretty Obvious when I sat down and took the Time and then I was really lucky that a Book deal came along and that helped
That's when I started writing the book Um so you do so you so you got the Partnership with lowest term around 2014 2015-ish 2014 before the the uh So the partnership kind of developed Throughout the kickstarter because the First it was limited to like a thousand Notebooks like that was the partnership It was a quick collaboration and then Both of us saw that there was a real Demand for it so that quickly Became the partnership that you see Today and working with them has been Absolutely delightful they make it Possible I couldn't possibly do this by Myself and it was just me for the Longest time and then I just kept on Focusing on creating more content and Surfacing people in my community that Was like the main thing finding people So unlike myself that used this for in Ways that I would have never imagined Finding other people and yeah that Worked people it was it was amazing and Then No and the thing that was interesting is Uh when I first shared bullet Journal Was very much more focused towards the Productivity thing because I wasn't Really Comfortable talking about The more existential part of it right It's like the why that's that's I don't I didn't think I was qualified or you
Know that people were interested But now years had been going by and more And more and more people were a bit like Something's happening while I'm doing This like you know you had mentioned That there's somewhat of a state shift In the way that you start per se Perceiving time and your life and this Happens to people quite regularly and I Hear about it all the time and I started Answering emails like okay it's not About like setting goals it's about Setting meaningful goals or like how do I know what is Meaningful what is not Meaningful because people started Becoming more and more productive and They keep running into this problem Where they Get things done and then like a day a Week a month later it's like it never Like they just normalize and then it's Over right it's like okay so you got the Six pack you know but you're still Insecure so it doesn't that that wasn't The goal wasn't about the six-pack it Was figuring out a way to become more Confident you know and that's a very Different Journey you know and that Started happening regularly in all sorts Of different ways so I was like Answering all these emails as best I Could because you know This is what I'm most fascinated in the Why and figuring out what is Meaningful
And the reason behind the reason if you Will and eventually it's like well maybe A book would be a better way better Medium of sharing this part of the Methodology the thing that for me is at The heart of it the why you know And yeah so we start shopping around a Book and What did that process look like Which part the book deal getting process I mean it was a really wild ride Um Bullet Journal I was really I was really Blessed with a lot of attention for this Thing right and I didn't really know What to do with it and eventually agents Started reaching out to me it's like Have you thought about a book And that's not something that happens to A lot of people and I'm like I have But I don't know if I need an agent or Something like that and all of a sudden Publishing companies start reaching out To me and then I start going into Publishing companies and they're like Blah blah blah blah blah you know here's A deal or here's something else I'm like I need an agent like I don't know if This is a good deal I don't know what I'm getting into and it was like the First time where it's like I really need Help because for me what was most Important about the book is that it Could serve as many people as possible
Like that was it like I wanted to create Something that would help that was it That was the goal it's like right the Best book you can to help as many people As possible and then that became the Guiding rule for all this stuff like it Wasn't about being a bestseller it Wasn't about anything else like create The best tool you possibly can just on That note that seems awfully altruistic I I find that with with my own Motivation they're often muddied with a Bit of yeah I want to help people but Like being a best at it would be cool Like what was that And balancing the the selfish motives With the service motives I guess for you Well I mean look Of course I would have to be able to Feed myself in the process so it wasn't But the best seller thing I you know My father's an author so I grew up Around like the whole idea of best Sellers and books and everything like That and it to me it always seemed Really dangerous to Focus on something that's so out of your Control yeah So that's something that I kind of put Out of my mind because it's it's what do I do with the best seller part like what What does that mean it's like a six-pack Thing you put six packs in that one yeah Like what's the underlying thing that's
Trying to serve right you know like Would it be nice absolutely I'm not Gonna throw it out the window or Anything if it happens great but what's To me just like getting to the Finish Line with writing this book is it was Much more important and doing it in a Way where I could like this is the best I can possibly do that was enough in Some ways it's not necessarily altruism It's like setting the bar so low that I Can actually do it it's like I just want To do the best job I possibly can and Finish this thing like so You know and hopefully it helps people That's that's all if I can do that then Great so it's it's more about the maybe More of a survival mindset like I just Want to do a good job I know what you Mean yeah I find that anytime I'm Sitting down to write whenever I have The best set of list in my mind it just Completely takes the fun out of it but Whenever I think you know what I just Want to write something I'm proud of That can help at least one person Suddenly the bar is low it's like I Could write something I'm proud of yeah And I was I was chatting to Cal Newport On the Pod a few weeks ago and he said Every single time he's written a book He's told himself this one just needs to Be reasonable the next one is going to Be good
I I love that just like lowering the bar Just needs to be reasonable yeah I think Lowering the bar is is an incredibly Powerful mindset really it's like as Long as you keep making progress I Actually got this from Austin Cleon I Was on his newsletter or I read his Newsletter rather and he talked about an Author's name I'm forgetting right now Who had a card that's uh without hope Without despair every day and like that Was the writing process for me without Hope without disparity just right that's It and it worked you know it's a sat Down it's like I don't feel like it just Right yeah well it's gonna be great yeah That's it and it's I don't know my kind of my productivity Ethos is like do the thing that you Committed to regardless you know like Some maybe I'll get more done maybe You'll get less done but just do it show Up so how did you like which publisher Did you go with in the end hanging Around the house oh nice same Um how do you decide on them I mean I Guess it's easy enough because they're Big but like what were the the imprint That I went with was portfolio and I had Published a bunch of authors whose work I liked a lot and Seth God and Ryan Holiday those kind of things like okay They get it they get my space and I Think they know what I'm trying to
Accomplish with this like this the book For me is a tool really it is and I was Trying to figure out who would Understand that and I felt like that Very much was the case they understood What I was trying to do and you know uh Yeah they they clearly represented People who's thinking I also Very much enjoy so then you had a Deadline how did you deal with the doing The work when there is a deadline and Writers famously procrastinate all the Time yeah Um like you know it took me a year to Write this thing on and off but I also Designed it so it was like a two-part Peace For me I think the big mistake I would Say is that I felt like writing was just Going to be a thing right you just sit Down and you write this thing but I felt Like for me my book was more I ended up Being more like a child that grows right So at the beginning it's an infinite Doesn't know what it is you know it's Like crying all the time you don't know What you're doing as a parent but then As you keep writing and you have a Strategy for that like you quickly have To develop a strategy for that and it's Like just growing up and then all of a Sudden it becomes like a toddler and That has different circumstances it Starts like understanding things at a
Little bit of a direction it's like Running around then it becomes an Adolescent where it's disagreeing with You and then like you need a completely Different approach and how you write so I mean the short version of this is that It went from something that was really Creative which required like one Approach to something that was much more Editorial like for in general the way That I write is I put way too much stuff On and then I just like it's more of a Sculptural approach like way too much Content and then scrape away everything You know just leave what's necessary It's like Anne Lamont you know it's like I just write a terrible first draft and I'm okay with that yeah I I got to that Point in my career I guess maybe as a Designer and just like get it up and and Then worry about it worry about it later And I feel like that that was really Helpful because I'm like oh wow this Really is bad yeah it's truly bad but This paragraph and this sentence are Something yeah yeah that's the stage I'm At right now I've done the shitty first Draft and I look at it I'm just like Most of it is really bad but okay Occasionally there are some bits that Are reasonable and I'm like all right Cool how do we get just more of those Bits yeah string them together So my process was very different
Depending on what stage I was at in Writing the book but I also handed off Pieces of the book early so like I would Hand off like the first third and while They were editing it I was writing like The second third and then I give them That back and so it was very cyclical I Was always in some different phase of Writing Which was helpful to me and I know that Every writer kind of has a different Process How much um I I guess you would have Figured out the terminology and the Language and stuff beforehand but Possibly not because the thing I'm Struggling with right now is Title subtitle hook elevator pitch like What is the one line two line three line Description like a thing of what is the Book about and I'm just like oh my God Why is it so hard to condense An idea into just like a few things like How how was that for you I mean that's The hardest part right what's the famous Line I've had more time I would have Written you shorter letter yeah yeah I Mean for me I will say I did have the Name already it was like the bullet Journal method like what is this like It's very important for me that people Realize that it is a method it's not a Notebook we happen to use a notebook so It's like the bullet Journal method the
The trouble was distilling the subtitle And for that we actually did user Testing I had like I don't know 12 Different subtitles and which do people Respond to what was the subtitle you Went with in the end Um track the past order their present Design the future Nice If if someone were to ask you what is The book about What's the yeah what's your answer It's Friday now now I I need to figure Out a one-liner with this it's like How to live an intentional life like That's it that the whole thing of the Bullet Journal method is trying to Figure out what that means to you and How to embody the your values and how You do that every day and you get to Learn more about yourself I guess I could keep on putting a Comments But yeah it's a systematic approach to Living an intentional life Um we've talked a bit about this idea of Values and everyone says this and I Can't figure out your values and like Live an alignment with your values and Stuff sure I have tried about five dozen Different exercises on the internet Around how to figure out your values I'm Curious how you approach that how should One figure out their values or how how
Do you how did you go about it I think It's an ongoing process right because Your circumstances change you learn new Things and your values can change I find But I think a big part of it is by Studying your lived experience So what have you done that has brought You closer to the life that resonates With you and what have you done that has Brought you further away from that right I think a lot of values reveal Themselves and the choices that we make And the response we have to the choices That we make We learn about ourselves after the fact Right people are like oh what are my Values and they see this list of 50 Values I'm like oh you know a kindness Sounds good yeah right that's like where Did kindness ever have an emotional Effect on you I'm not saying that Kindness is a bad value but is it an Actual value of yours like values I Think are something that Are very individual and something that Isn't obvious to us all out of the time But by studying our lived experience They can reveal themselves you know some People who think power is a value it's Like is power of value or do you value Control and is that actual value or is That some kind of coping mechanism does That make sense it's it's so well like What do you mean by value like but like
Most people would probably say that yeah I I value kindness I value honesty Integrity and stuff are we talking like What are moments in your life where you Felt the most you like you were doing Something meaningful and trying to get Stuff out of that or to me I think it's Both sides of the spectrum it's figuring Out what moments in your life have felt More most meaningful or more meaningful Or meaningful at all it doesn't need to Be most meaningful and what Behavior or Value supported that experience That to me is really interesting like What about this felt meaningful to you Yep and then you have the flip side of That where you feel terrible about Something and like what value was not Being met or what anti-value if you will Are you You know now embodying right is it Jealousy is it anger is it you know Pettiness that kind of thing okay so What's the opposite of that if you don't Want to feel this way It reveals what you do want to feel That kind of thing and For me embodying your values is Critical that helps you form your Intentions because values are there's no They're kind of part of the infinite Game if you will right they like it's Something that you embody you have the Choice to embody your value or not but
Only when you're aware of them it's like You have choices how to respond again we Get back to stoicism here right the only Thing you control is how you respond Okay so what's driving that response You know that that's the part that like Is missing off and it's like okay I have A choice as to how to respond but then What's driving that choice And that choice I would like to argue Should be your value because if there's Nothing behind The choice then you might be responding Poorly So are we are we talking sort of general Or almost like your own personal or ten Commandments type thing Or that's one way of looking at it sure I think it's Embodying qualities that Help you find meaning in some ways Right it's like when I'm being this way It feels meaningful when I'm not being This way yeah it does not so like for me When I'm teaching someone something that I know it feels very meaningful Um when I am being like when I feel like I'm being authentic and honest it feels Meaningful when I have to tell a white Lie it feels really bad When I don't give someone all the Information because it might make them Feel bad or something like oh I'm almost Like something about this feels really
Off sure and Is that kind of what we mean what we Mean like so sort of figuring out what Are yeah sort of almost like taking your Feelings about stuff seriously and Figuring out okay what therefore are Like what does this reveal about the Things that I value yes that's exactly Right and I think that that's An ongoing process yeah and then You try to figure out ways to embody Those values right and I feel like There's also different value domains as Well like you're not going to have the Same values at work as you are you know At home you know you your your partner Doesn't need the best boss like that's Not that's not a value that's meaningful There and so you can start to like Quantify where you're Now qualify where your values are yeah In which domain and that a big part of That is just like studying your life It's like okay I felt badly about doing This thing why And the answer isn't always obvious I Would argue the answer is not obvious And over time you start to observe Patterns in your own behavior like huh When I spend time with this person Things feel good or if I feel really Connected or I feel very authentic Why why does this person bring that out Of me what do we discuss what do we do
And then people who don't like every Time I spend time with this person I Feel completely drained or I feel like I Betrayed myself or you know I'm trying To put on a show or I don't feel good And then you can start like unraveling That whole Rabbit Hole one piece at a Time and it words come up like you Actually have language here you know Authentic inauthentic present distracted These kind of things and curious for me You know value mind is curiosity and Play those are two things that are how Do I bring play into the situation You know how to embody curiosity in this Situation like I have an option of how I'm going to respond here and how do I Bring that up Nice Um What's your take on Three-year planning five-year planning 10-year planning one-year planning like Having heard all the zillions of stories From people like what have you seen it I Guess in your life and in the lives of People who've reached out to you with Stories what's what's a good amount of Planning versus spontaneity to her yeah I mean for me I guess I approach this whole thing Differently because for me it's more About being in the present right and Trying to develop different goals that
Are for me experiments their plays if You will it's okay what am I going to do Now that helps me embody this value in Some way And A Five-Year Plan doesn't really work That way because I know it's going to Change that being said Kind of having an idea of where I want To head like okay so I think the best Way I can talk about this is that I I have this analogy that goals are Like lighthouses oh right tell me more Sure so a lot of times when I heard About goals in the past it's like here Is your target yeah right and That's how I operated and it was always Disappointing and confusing at least for Me and the reason why is when you set a Goal you're setting it at the furthest Distance away from that reality from day One is the first distance you'll ever be Away from that goal so it means you Don't know anything about that Experience you don't know anything about That reality and every day as you get Closer to that goal it becomes clearer And it becomes more real And oftentimes you change your mind You're like oh wait this is not what I Actually want or you learn something new It's actually over here so I think that Rather it being the Final Destination It's like a lighthouse and from what I
Understand of lighthouses I'm a Lighthouse expert but let's just go with It for now you never go to the Lighthouse right the lighthouse stands At a place that's actually really Hazardous it's there to make sure the Chips don't go there but ships can also Use it to navigate And I think that that's a really Interesting way of thinking about your Goals because it's you're setting some Destination for you to learn about Something along the way and if you think About it as a lighthouse then going off Course or you know changing course if You will is part of it right and you Just keep on setting different Lighthouse goals okay it's like I want to be this kind of doctor and Then you get halfway through and you're Like oh actually no it's like this Specialty or this thing or actually Something completely different that I Didn't know about at the beginning of The journey so I like lighthouses to Come back to the year-long five-year Goals I think it's the same kind of thing if You believe in something strongly and It's going to take you five years start Right and then change your mind when you When it becomes more real I think having Objectives is really important right but I also think abandoning the objectives
Based on realities just as important If that makes sense like when when a Theory starts becoming very real through Your lived experience That's that's And then resetting along the way I don't Know for me everything is a lot more Organic than setting five-year goals Like sometimes I want to do something Like that's going to take five years Let's start and see what happens and Then I'm not like doggedly pursuing this Thing for five years because I've never Been in a situation where five years Later I'm the same person that just Hasn't happened for me It's good to have the direction so I'm Don't get totally lost right yeah like a Lighthouse but along the way I'm just a Completely different person That's a really great way I think about Golf I love it that's fantastic yeah I Think there's a lot of um almost Moralizing around this around how it is A morally good thing for you to stick to The goal that you set and like if you Move the goal posts that's like Considered a bad thing rather than a Good thing that you move the goal post And often people will like I get I get This criticism from my mum quite a lot They're like hey so you know that time You were taking those exams to do Residency in the US like what happened
To that and I'm like why'd you move the GoPro and she's like yeah you know you Move the goal post I'm like yeah exactly I started doing the thing realized that That's not in fact the person I want to Be and change my mind And I feel like this is probably a good Thing rather than a bad thing but I Guess it's that balance between Being a quitter versus being someone who Changed their mind on goal as they got More data how how do you think about That balance sure yeah and there's There's no ultimate answer to that as Well I feel like one easy way to define The difference or the distinction there Is that you continue making progress Towards something right rather than like This target you're like okay it's over Here and you continue to work and like It's going to take two months it's gonna Take like the book that I started to Write and the book that I handed off are Completely different things right I did The work it took the time but The goal and the destination were very Different from one another if that makes Sense and then just giving up sure and I Don't think that that's necessarily a Bad thing either Um there's a lot of nuance here that I Can't really like cover but there's one Thing where it's like you just don't Believe in this anymore
And that's okay you know and Sometimes you don't believe I mean don't Get me wrong I didn't believe in my book On multiple days in those years right It's like why am I doing this like I got No business doing this all these things But it would go away and there's a Season for that but if like you truly Just don't understand why you're doing Something anymore you know Then quoting is absolutely okay you know We have such limited time here I think it's understanding why you're Quitting specifically That's important what about this isn't Working for me and oftentimes like It not meaning anything to you anymore Now that you realize what the truth About this goal is Is really important you know it's it's Um It's a process and a lot of times we set Goals that actually seem quite pointless Halfway through you're like wait a Second not because it's hard the Hardness shouldn't be the determining Factor it's kind of like I don't know What value this is adding to my life in Case like you know it's it's is this Going to make me a better partner a Better teacher a better whatever like You're halfway through do you feel that Way You know the reality is starting to set
In You know and if the answer is no yeah Ongoingly then I think that's a pretty Good indication that that might not be Worth pursuing And so one of the things we did this Time last year actually when we first Moved into the studio was you know Worked with a business coach and he Talked about kind of making uh sort of Three or three year picture three-year Plan kind of thing And I was like oh come on like three Years social media space things changed A lot and it was like you know that's Fine but it's useful to think at this at This stage what do you just like imagine That through your picture to be because Then we can start working towards that And see what happens another time I was Like okay three years from now I want to Be doing on a 10 million Revenue I want To be a team of 40 people like physical Location in London like multiple Studios Where we can like bring our YouTuber Academy students in and rent them out And stuff And we're like all right cool let's Start working towards that thing that That kind of picture And Within probably about six or so months I Started feeling hmm that picture no Longer feels great like I actually don't
Want to have a team of 50 people and be Worrying about Revenue numbers and be Trying to rent Studio space to people There's like that seems like the worst Thing in the world okay uh and then that Vision changed and it became much more About like Actually it'll be quite nice to be able To focus on doing things I actually Enjoy which is Reading Writing and Teaching without having to worry about Managing a team and all that kind of Stuff And so having and and this is why we Only signed up to this studio space for A year because I knew at the time it was Like okay this is an experiment we're Going to gather data throughout this Year and see what happens so now we're As of like tomorrow we're and next week We're moving out of this place Um I'm moving into a flat with my with My brother and his wife and we're kind Of building a YouTube podcasting studio In the flat to see what that will be Like and again that's just an experiment For a year to see what happens and I Find that sort of being Committing to a path for a certain Period of time just to sort of not be Too uh not having a Direction but also Being completely open to changing my Mind on it because knowing that like hey I actually have no data points on this
Let's just gather data treat it as an Experiment and see what happens yeah I Totally agree with that path I mean it's Like you know when you keep on working Right you're pushing things forward and As you learn I think it's silly to Continue to go towards something when You realize that it's not aligned with What you care about especially Because you're experiencing it every day I mean with the story it sounds like you Did the work things came up you learned And it didn't feel right and then you Opted to do something else it wasn't Like pulling the plug so that goal Became irrelevant at that point I do Think it's helpful to start somewhere Though like to be very clear it's like Let's create the three year let's create The five year For me again it's always comes back to The value it's like okay the value Determines the goals like I want to Create a really wonderful company how do I do that in five years and then like We'll learn yes it's great you know just More playful I think you just need to be Much more playful in our productivity It's like okay Playful productivity yes now Um I was going to call my book playful Productivity or joyful productivity or Something annoyingly both those names Are taken by other people that have made
Blogs there with those titles damn Um The changing gear is a bit sure Bullet Journal has an app what's what's A deal with that sure Um So for me people always ask me like Digital or analog and I'm really Agnostic to this it's about the finding The best tool for the job when it comes To Bujo I find that a notebook at least To me and many is really helpful because It helps you go offline but it also has Limitations that are unnecessary right Like a notebook's not going to remind You to check in with it And technology is really good like that And having been a ux designer and Designing apps all my life like I really Enjoy doing that as well I'm like huh How can I Bridge the digital analog in Different ways and the app is like that It sets reminders it helps you track how Often you've reflected to keep you Honest about it it gives you different Quotes it allows you to take pictures of Your notebook so you can have a digital Backup you know all these Tools that can be really helpful to People you don't need it I see all of The products that I make as accessories To the methodology you know but uh yeah I try to fill my own gaps in my Productivity system like okay I actually
Want to take a picture of this to send It to somebody I want to have a backup of it like I Lost a lot of my notebooks in a flood Early on so like I and that's a real Thing yeah so the app does that kind of Thing it's it doesn't replace the Notebook it's an extension of that's why It's called the companion app yeah yeah No just looking up on the on the App Store um plus it's also a Nexus for Information I mean one thing again I'm Really blessed that Bullet Journal has blown up but it's Gotten so big that people really kind of Lose lose the signal the noise And so the affirm is also a Nexus like Here are all the Articles you know Here's how you can begin all that stuff In your pocket and it's easy you know For like three bucks or something yeah It's it's a good place to start Being intentional about how the Information is surfaced okay so like one One question I've been asking a few Guests is that Um let's say you won the lottery and you Don't have to worry about money ever Again And you've got to do something with your Time How different does that look compared to What you're doing now with your time Does this basically just mean that I
Don't have to work if I don't want to or Is it what do I do with my resources uh Basically you don't have to work if you Don't want to okay yeah we want to make Sure that we're playing the right game I Try to find the question to make that More obvious yeah yeah Um I did the same thing For sure yeah and that's the biggest Change in my life people is like how did Bullet Journal link change your life It's like I wake up every day and I know Exactly what I why I do what I do and I Believe in it doesn't make it easy no Not at all it's really hard and I have Really bad days and I have to wear all Sorts of hats that don't fit really well Yeah but it's like I know why and that's The shift and like I want everybody to Experience what that's like I think it's available to more people Than people would imagine right like Just being really deliberate about the Choices that you're making and taking Ownership about those choices Of those choices I love it Um so how does bullet Journal evolve From here I mean you've got the Notebooks you've got the method like You've got the app you've got the course The university What else is like I'm struggling to see
What the future looks like but Presumably you're like so much stuff I Want to do but like yeah yeah education Education I think the biggest challenge That I still face and people like what Is it yeah right and the answer that I Used to give people which I have now Understood to be unhelpful like it's Whatever you need it to be but then you Run into the blank page problem which is You sit down and like you want to create Something with a blank page and you Don't know what to write so for me it's About creating Educational access points where people Can see bullet journaling for students But literally for doctors that kind of Thing showing them how they can Implement this methodology for their Circumstances specifically that's what I'm interested in creating it's an Extension of what I was doing before Which is finding people who show you how They use bullet journal for their Specific use case so is that and also I mean learning how to live an Intentional life is just I don't know it's it's an infinite topic There's so many ways of approaching it And it's really exciting to me so for me It's it's it's I'm trying to create an Infrastructure for me to build the Things to build tools to help people Yeah live an intentional life and
There's just so many ways of going about That and there's some Really interesting projects in the works Along those lines but I think it's Education I feel like education as a Company is one of our core focuses as Both a value and as a goal Foreign I love it another thing is I don't know Where bullet Journal will go like There's so many different ways but we Have a community and they teach me all The time so they'll ask me questions and They will identify opportunities for us To like really lean into and build Systems around and all that kind of Thing so I'm really excited to learn About what people need and see if we can Build something to support that Ryder thank you so much it's been Wonderful uh where can people where's The best place for people to learn more About you about the bullet Journal Method bullet journal.com amazing nice And easy and we'll put links to all the Stuff including the book and my video on The topic and Matt's video on the topic And your website and bullet journal.com All of those links will be in the video Description and the show notes wherever People are listening to this thank you So much for coming on thanks so much for Having me All right so that's it for this week's
Episode of Deep dive thank you so much For watching or listening all the links And resources that we mentioned in the Podcast are going to be linked down in The video description or in the show Notes depending on where you're watching Or listening to this if you're listening To this on a podcast platform then do Please leave us a review on the iTunes Store it really helps other people Discover the podcast or if you're Watching this in full HD or 4k on YouTube then you can leave a comment Down below and ask any questions or any Insights or any thoughts about the Episode that would be awesome and if you Enjoyed this episode you might like to Check out this episode here as well Which links in with some of the stuff That we talked about in the episode so Thanks for watching uh do hit the Subscribe button if you aren't already And I'll see you next time bye
