In this short clip, Patrick Bet-David, Vivek Ramaswamy and Adam Sosnick talk about Elon Musk and Tim Cook’s involvement in China.
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We talked about Elon I want to ask you About Elon so here's an article from Unheard Vivek ramaswami Elon Musk won't Save us okay they actually titled that And not me but but I'll tell you what I Said okay I'm I'm gonna read it to you So you can go so effectively a bunch of Big Banks get in bed with a bunch of Woke Millennials together they birthed Wall capitalism they use that to Occupy Wall Street uh up for adoption Elon Musk Ongoing release of Twitter files Arguably demonstrates more than a fair Weather commitment to if not ending then Certainly denouncing censorship as well As government uh collusion with big Tech Be that it may be in Rama Swami's Opinion the need for deeper Institutional change remains in his view Musk will still have to play by the Rules if he wants Twitter to survive and There is one master he will always have Two appease the master is known as the CCP that both Tim Cook and Alamos Probably have have to bow down to on any Given day so in a certain sense if you Bow down to the same Master maybe your Brother's in arms so what do you think About what Elon musk's up to and what He's doing so I'll give you 9 90 of my Opinion which is the less interesting Part and then I'll get to the 10 that I Think we got that that's that's worth Calling out for what it is right the 90
Is I am a free speech Zealot myself I'm A free speech absolutist I believe That's part of what it means to be American I think he's a hero for taking The risk personal risk that's my Definition of courage is taking a Personal risk to advance your Convictions what does that mean you have Convictions and you're willing to take Risks he's done both those things in Trying to turn Twitter into Free Speech Platform I respect it second thing he's Done that I respect and I think we could Use more of this in our government Is he's completely decimated the Managerial class okay and this is one of My big themes is you have a managerial Class of bureaucrats in the public and Private sectors that are by the way some Of the same people okay associate Deans At universities to Mid to upper level Management at Twitter to the deputy Under Secretary of whatever whatever to Some Ambassador I think he has Completely taken that managerial layer Out of Twitter personally I think it's With the us next U.S president needs to Do to the federal bureaucratic alphabet Soup as well so those are all things That I think he gives us a model for Inspiration the model for hope I take Inspiration from it I agree with all of It Two things I disagree with okay
One is an area where I think he can do Better he says he wants to turn Twitter Into a free speech platform I agree with that goal I think I think That is genuinely his goal however he Also says things like as he did in New York City you know it's a number of Months ago well maybe we don't want the 10 on either extreme the far left or the Far right that we want to serve the 80 Percent of the people in the middle My view is that it's going in the wrong Direction okay he met with advertisers Brought civil rights representatives in Tries to appease advertisers still Saying that they have content moderation Still showing that it's just a moderate Vision and so I think that Elon goes Back and forth between being a free Speech absolutist and believing and Actually operating a free speech Platform and operating a platform that Improves off of its one-sided political Censorship but only by a little bit to Say that okay now we're going to apply a Politically Centrist model of censorship That it's not Republican or Democrat but It's Centrist and yet we're still going To make those centralized decisions that Something is too far in The Fringe then It's out of The Fray then it's off the Site but it's applying the Centrist Model and trying to appease advertisers That way I disagree with that I think
That the principle of operating a free Speech platform means that there is no Viewpoint based discrimination period That there should be nobody determining Whether something is Centrist or extreme Right or moderate anything anything goes In your eyes any Viewpoint goes then I I've written about this in the Wall Street Journal I lay this out right so No Viewpoint discrimination that means Hate speech has a category goes away Because hate speech is just someone Else's opinion now when it comes to Misinformation or alleged misinformation You have to you have the burden of proof Of proving that it was false before Removing it that's a very high burden Most of the time almost ever are you Going to meet that that's okay that's The standard government collusion NADA Okay if you are going to collaborate With any government you need to publicly Disclose it and not engage in any form Of government collusion and then there's The the final element here which is if In doubt Give the power back to the user let the User decide what they do and don't get To see rather than making those Determinations centrally that's what it Means to operate a free speech platform And I worry that what is he on a given Day sometimes what it seems like he's Actually operating is a platform that's
Just using politically Centrist Censorship rather than far left Censorship which I guess if I had to Pick between the two I guess I would Choose the Centrist one but only by a Little bit that's not what it means to Operate a free speech platform then There's the piece about China Okay elon's commentary about Taiwan I Found publicly uh Revolting I find it repulsive the idea That China that Taiwan should submit Itself to become just a special Administrative region basically part of China And and I worry about this because he Gets an attaboy on the back from the Chinese government for the Shanghai Factory where they got some tax cut Right after that but it's not just Elon Here This is the game that China plays by Design it's like the Trojan War okay Greece was not going to defeat Troy Militarily any more than China was ever Going to defeat the us militarily but What did Greece do they gave them the Trojan Horse the beautiful gift that They knew Troy could not resist Troy Opened the front door they came right in What was inside that horse burned Troy Down that's what's going on in America Where they knew the Trojan Horse the Beautiful horse the gift that we cannot
Resist is the appearance of global Capitalism itself okay green pieces of Paper maybe different shades of green if We chase them in other currencies in Other parts of the world they know That's the sweet siren song we can't Resist but you know what the CCP does is They say you can't do business here you Can't make things here you can't sell Things here if you criticize the CCP if You apply a constraint here like an Emissions cap or whatever but they will Roll out the red carpet to anyone who Criticizes the United States because They know that undermines America's Greatest asset of of all and that is not Our nuclear Arsenal it is our moral Standing on the global stage and so that Is why certainly Tim Cook and Larry Fink Are XI jinping's circus monkeys he will Say JUMP she will say JUMP Tim Cook or Larry Fink will ask how high but I think If we're just being honest Arbiters here And I say this is somebody who's most 90 My public commentary has been very Supportive of what Elon Musk is doing I Respect it but I'm also not into hero Worship I don't care who it is okay some Too much of our country including the Conservative movement in this country Has got into replacing the need for Christ with these christ-like Messiahs From you know one political figure to a Business figure but the real question is
We have to see the vulnerabilities and I Think one of those vulnerabilities Evidences comments about Taiwan is Possibly the need to do business and Produce in China so so there's the Article by the way Elon musk's Unsolicited idea for Taiwan welcomed by Beijing slammed in Taipei if you go a Little lower this is what you're Referencing I'm assuming right my Recommendation would be figure out a Special administrative zone for Taiwan That is reasonably palpatible probably Probably won't make everybody happy Masks are to financial times and it's Possible and I think probably in fact That they could have an arrangement That's more lenient than Hong Kong and Then some people stay out of it so Here's here's a question for you from This standpoint so Tim Cook has a different approach than Elon Musk Tim Cook is very low-key he's Not public he's kind of quiet to himself And some people call him the greatest CEO replacing a Founder to increase the Value of a company and the data backs it Up 100 billion to three trillion Whatever the company's work right now But I think it peaked that three and uh He's done a good job he's been able to Hold off Biden's uh uh Obama's camp and They wanted the files back in San Bernardino with the shooting took place
Hey tell us what's in the phone I'm not Doing it but at the same time with Trump So and then he goes to Trump he said Wait a minute first openly gay Republican enforce openly gay sometimes He's voted Republican you know CEO Fortune 500 company goes and meets with Trump and you know why did you meet with Trump he says because Trump's the only President that calls me and takes my Calls the other guys didn't so he plays An interesting role what Tim Cook does Okay I'm not criticizing I mean but Here's what I'm going with this where I'm going with it yeah this one I'm Going with it I'm curious to know what You say with this so how much of it is His responsibility to the country verse Versus his responsibility to the Shareholders and let me unpack this let Me unpack this so here's where I'm going With this I'm Tim Cook Okay well what an idiot you know I can't Believe he's doing this he's big back You know he's bending the knee to China And that's what it is versus he's Quietly sitting there saying okay I'm Playing a long game I'm gradually moving All my manufacturing outside of China to India India is coming up India is doing Very well you know India is producing Great Engineers manufacturing they're Investing into their military they
Banned 100 apps in China Tick Tock being One of them they're one of the only Biggest ones that did that you got a few Other ones that did it but they're the Big ones that did it right I'm going to Gradually move there but I'm not going To shake things up in China and then Eventually we're 100 leaving China Should should he would would investors And shareholders want a majorly Disruptive decision to be made we're out Of China and the stock dropped 60 or is Is his sole fiduciary responsibility to Downplay a move that he's making to Gradually move away from somebody like China knowing long term we can't be Doing business with these guys what are Your thoughts on this I'm glad you asked This yeah Patrick so the short answer The question is his soul fiduciary duty Is to his shareholders and so I want to Be clear up what did I say I said that Tim Cook is a circus monkey who will Jump as high as Xi Jinping tells him to Now I'm not criticizing Tim Cook any More than I'm criticizing the Cirque Monkey it's not the circus monkey's Fault I'm criticizing the circus I'm Criticizing the game so this was a Mistake that policy makers in the United States made dating back to the 1990s was A philosophy of democratic capitalism Okay when we opened up dates back to Kissinger where we said we could spread
Democracy to places like China by using Capitalism as a vehicle to do it we Thought we could use our money our Investment over there to get them to be More like us What they realized is they're actually The winners of this game they realized They could use their money access to Their Market their supply chains as a Way to get us to be more like them That was the game they played so it's in A certain sense not Tim Cook's fault What do I think actually who do I think This reset the circus monkey is not a Compliment well it's not a i don't I Don't think it's the circus monkey's Fault Fault of the people who created the Circus so he's he's in it he's in a seat Where in that narrow game he has to be Playing the game he's playing the real Fault lies you have to be playing the Game that he's playing yes okay with With one caveat I'm going to come back To so the the problem is the bipartisan Consensus in this country that created That backdrop where China was able to Exploit us okay because you know what Unlike the USSR they now Supply the Shoes on our feet and the phones in our Pocket that's what makes them a lot Harder of a rival to take on than the USSR because we were never in that Position with respect to the USSR now
There's one asterisk to this let me come Back to it which I will criticize Tim Cook for and Apple for which is the Sheer hypocrisy Of not saying that peep in China While Virtue signaling by giving hundreds of Millions of dollars of the company's Money to Black lives matter or related Causes here at home and again I come Back to the fact that he is a fiduciary That is not his money that is money that Belongs to the shareholders and now once You've done that now what are you doing You're actually deflecting your Customers scrutiny of your behavior in China and that's a form of Quasi Fraudulent and quasi dishonest Behavior By creating what I call blow and woke Smoke or whatever you want to call it to Deflect accountability from customers From seeing what you're actually what's Actually going on in China and then I Want to say one last thing back to about Defensive Tim Cook as I told you about The racial Equity audit that Apple was Forced to conduct in 2022 Tim Cook didn't want to do it so this Problem with the social issues actually Traces Upstream of Tim Cook or Apple's Board back to Blackrock okay so the Thing with BlackRock is they're the ones Using the money of probably many Listeners to this program to force Tim
Cook to do something that he and Apple's Board did not want to do which was adopt This racial Equity program and yet that He was forced to do now your question Will be well why does BlackRock do it What's in it for them This goes back to the China thing where BlackRock will apply the emissions Constraints and diversity mandates in The U.S without doing it in China why Because BlackRock then gets to be the First ever provider of mutual fund Products in China because the CCP gives Them favors when they behave Asymmetrically so that's kind of this Game runs deep you got to understand it And I appreciate you asking these Questions because it kind of takes us Further along than I get on you know Three minutes but the reason I asked This question by the way you know if you Can go to the Annie article January 12 China ESG rating would uh could become Concerned for investors which is this is Where they're going to get stuck the Hypocrisy is about to be exposed China's ESG rating could become a concern for Investors as the country's high carbon Emissions lack of transparency and human Rights concerns raised red flags the Reports suggest that China's ESG rating Is lower than other major economies and Investors may need to consider the Potential risks before investing in
Chinese companies it is noted that China's high carbon emissions and lack Of transparency in its energy sector are Major concerns as well as the human Rights record particularly in regards to Its treatment of ethnic minorities right Now here's the part you know how I've Interviewed Ray dalio David Rubinstein Was here three weeks ago four weeks ago You know who David Ruben since he wrote The book how to invest and in his book If you've read how to invest 80 percent Of the interviews everybody was asked ESG how are we using ESG you know he's Larry thank you interviews everybody so He's talking okay So this right here if they're sitting There saying yes she's the right Responsible thing to do They're gradually going to be cornered To say if you're saying that's the right Thing to do but you got five you know 40 Of your money in China You're not being responsible they're not Being responsible how quickly can we Remove the money at it then they know They can't because China's not going to Let you make that investment remove the Money that quickly they're not going to Sit there and say yeah go ahead that's Kind of how we do business not gonna Happen This could this could lead to them being Exposed in a big way to say maybe this
ESG thing isn't really the best idea What do you think I mean I believe that I mean I have been sounding the horn on This for Two and a half three years now right the The linkage between China and ESG back When I first started writing about this Was a topic that no one else was on I Have been pounding the pavement on this For the last two to three years and You're right the trends are changing it Is coming to a head you know what when I Started strive I made a day one Commitment I said we are not going to do Business in China Do business means launch an asset Management business in China because Then you have the boot of the CCP on our Neck and if the boot of the CCP is on Your neck you can't be a good vocal Fiduciary to American clients because You're conflicted in what you tell Exxon Or apple or Chevron to do as a Shareholder so yes these tides are Changing I don't think they're changing Automatically I think they're changing Because people are stepping up in the Form of public criticism in the form of Market Alternatives I hope I've done my Part in that and I'm optimistic actually It's not all doom and gloom here I think That we are on our way to a new Something now We didn't talk about one of the reasons
Why the CSG stuff has thrived I think Too which is that Look I think our generation of Americans Right people under the age of 50 or Under the age of 40 or whatever Millennials gen Z We are hungry for a cause that's a big Part of this too okay we're hungry for Meaning we're hungry for identity And the things that used to give us that Sense of purpose We could debate what it is faith Patriotism national identity hard work Used to be a source of identity family Used to be a sense of identity Those things have disappeared And so we have this black hole of a Vacuum And when you have a vacuum that runs That deep That's when a lot of these social dogmas Begin to fill that void instead Wokism transgenderism climatism covetism Esgism and so I think that's also part Of what's going on is there's a consumer Demand for it we have this sort of moral Hunger that we're trying to satisfy by Going to Ben and Jerry's in ordering a Cup of ice cream with some social Justice sprinkles on top call that the S Of ESG When in fact I think the other thing That's happening now is not just the China hypocrisy being exposed that
Effect is starting to wear off right Because when you when you're really Hungry you don't feel your hunger with Fast food you can't fill that moral Hunger with fast food we're starting to Realize that we're also hungry for Something deeper and so I think I Predict here and this is an optimistic Prediction That with Peak ESG potentially behind us We're also going to see a hunger for the Revival of the nation National identity it's part of from an Investing perspective I think it's going To be part of an era of de-globalization That we enter I don't think America is The only country going to go through This I think Italy is going through it Right now I think Hungary I think many Parts of Western Europe are going Through it I think we're going to see The Revival of the idea of the nation But me speaking as an American I hope we See a Revival of The American Nation in That context so if you like this clip And you want to watch another one click Right here and if you want to watch the Entire podcast click right here [Music]
