Heal Your Brain: How Your Gut Secretly Controls Your Brain Health – Dietitian Sophie Medlin

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Season 5 Episode 8

00:00 Intro
01:46 How you became a dietician and gut expert
06:36 What is a dietician?
09:19 The importance of gut health
13:11 Transformative experiences in clinic
15:12 Signs and symptoms of when to see a doctor
18:38 The brain-gut connection
23:54 Research on microbiome and mental performance
26:26 You should eat 30 different plants per week
30:19 Terrible advice from personal trainers
32:39 Intermitent fasting
35:49 The problem with too much meat in your diet
38:05 The importance of fish for brain health
39:42 How do supplements work?
41:30 Processed food, stress management and hydration
48:09 Does organic matter?49:14 Artificial sweeteners
51:39 Nutrition and dieting myths
01:04:39 How has diet culture evolved?
01:14:43 TOFI vs TOFI people
01:19:33 Snacking
01:21:57 Research on probiotics and mental health
01:24:41 IBS
01:26:15 What can we learn about the gut through testing?
01:32:36 What’s the deal with protein shakes?
01:35:01 The danger of juice cleanses
01:36:44 GutTok and colonic cleanses
01:38:30 Gluten free diets
01:41:31 The impacts of cutting out dairy
01:45:56 Why are people saying seed oils are evil?
01:48:16 Calories
01:52:12 Is mindful eating helpful?
01:52:56 Bloating
01:54:50 Glucouse monitoring
01:58:45 Food and mood recommendations
02:02:58 Developing the smart supplement for Heights
02:19:30 Your TV show: Know Your Sh!t


💻 Website –
📸 Instagram –
🐦 Twitter –
🧠 Heights Smart Probiotic –


🎥 YouTube Channel –
🐦 Twitter –
📸 Instagram –
💻 Website –
👥 Linkedin –

City Dieticians –
The Psychobiotic Revolution: Mood, Food and the New Science of the Gut-Brain Connection by Scott Anderson –
The Gut Stuff Website –
The Gut-Brain Axis White Paper –
The Microbiome-Autism Link: Does Gut Bacteria Play A Role In Autism Spectrum Disorder? –
Human Gut Microbiota from Autism Spectrum Disorder Promote Behavioral Symptoms in Mice –
Dr Rachel Kent (Health Tech) –


Visit the website for the transcript and highlights from the conversation –


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If you got is not quite working Optimally even though you might not have Any specific symptoms it can still have An impact on your mental health and your Mental performance when people are busy And they're working too hard and they're Doing a side hustle and everything else Is high pressure people tend to make Their diet quite small so they might end Up eating the same types of foods on Repeat and inevitably those ways of Eating have an impact on your gut health Whether you feel it in your gut or not This episode is an interview with one of The UK's leading experts on gut health Her name is Sophie Medlin and she is a Dietitian she's also the chair of the British dietetic Association for London And she works as a lecturer at King's College London and is actually also on TV these days as an expert for channels 4 show which is all about the science of The gut anyway I learned so much in this Episode and you're going to learn so Much as well about the gut and about Healthy nutrition and about what are all The myths around things like seed oils And should you eat carbs and is fried Food bad for you and what are the things That we can do to help improve our gut Health and how the gut brain access Works and how like our gut health Contributes to all of the other aspects Of our life inevitably if it's not happy

It's going to be screaming at your brain Or the time and that is noisy and Difficult for your brain to cope with And that can lead to things like brain Fog and struggling with focus and Concentration for example similarly if Your gut isn't happy but you don't Really know from other symptoms but You're getting loads of bugs infections Viruses all the time you notice you're Really susceptible that's a good time to Start looking at your gut health and I Think I guess for this audience what's Really important to recognize is this Connection between your gut and your Brain and how they are constantly Communicating with each other for better Or worse at the moment according to the YouTube analytics 81 of you who are Watching this on YouTube have not yet Hit the Subscribe button and so if You're for example in the now 81 of People who are watching this on YouTube But who are not subscribed to the Channel I would love it if you could do So and would be awesome to get that Number down to 50 and it would be cool To get like 50 50 sub non-sub ratio just Just for fun Sophie thank you so much For joining us thank you for having me You're an expert on gut health I am yeah I'm the Poo expert the Poo expert yeah And you've been on TV talking about poo And I would love to talk about poo and

Everything about the gut but I guess as A starting point how did how did we get Here how did you come to become the gut Expert what's kind of a blitz of your Life story yeah great question so I was A weird 15 year old child that knew I Wanted to be a dietitian so I was very Lucky to kind of have this direction From a very young age I was studying Catering at GCSE and I had a catering Teacher who was a nutritionist and we Did some stuff on like celiac disease And adapting diets a little bit and I Thought yeah I think that's something I Might like to do so I did a little bit Of reading and thought well I could be a Nutritionist which is a bit quicker to Train to do but that won't necessarily Open up all the doors to me and then I Read about being a dietitian knowing That I could then go and work in the NHS And do all sorts of other things within The world of nutrition I thought well I Might as well keep all the doors open And at this point I was predicted D's And E's and using My GCSE so I thought I'd do some work and make sure I get the Grades I need to get into University but It's really really good motivator and I Managed to turn that all around and get Got good enough grades to get in and Yeah studied nutrition and dietetics and The story starts from there most Dietitians start working in the NHS and

That's what I did so I was in the NHS For about eight years I did some Interesting stuff in elderly medicine Where you get really good at kind of Understanding about nutrition support Which is basically supporting under Nutrition so malnutrition Doing lots of tube feeding making Difficult decisions about whether people Should be tube fed or whether that's the Best thing for them or not given it Might be the end of their life that sort Of thing Um I then did head and neck cancer where You look after people who have all kinds Of horrific tumors in their mouth and Their throat in all sorts of different Places where obviously eating is Massively compromised and at that same Time I was doing a split roll with Intestinal failure and then I went on to Do a full-time intestinal failure role Where I was you know just super inspired By amazing colorectal surgeons doing Incredible things amazing specialist Nurses stoma nurses people who were just Turning people's lives around and people Who are in their most sort of vulnerable Moments of their life Um and nutrition has a massive impact on What comes out your bottom right what You put in the top end has an impact on What comes at the bottom and when you've Had any kind of bowel surgery or you are

Suffering in terms of your digestion What you put in has a huge impact not Only on your nutritional status but also On your on your quality of life so your Experience of eating so if you eat the Wrong things and inverted commas you're Going to be potentially incontinent and Having all sorts of terrible problems That really affect your quality of life And make your life very small And when I was able to see what a Massive difference I could make in that Environment a people's quality of life To their experience of living to their Experience of eating their relationship With food I was like this is what I want To do forever so I I've stuck with that Very much in terms of my clinical Expertise I uh was then a lecturer and Researcher for five years most recently At King's College in London and at that Time I was struggling a bit with kind of I love Academia I love teaching I love Working with students makes me really Happy I love that kind of mentoring Aspect of it but I was struggling with Some of the kind of Things that other people found easy the Admin side of things timetabling that Kind of thing things that might seem Like they don't really matter because You should have admin support but you Just don't in those kinds of Environments and it's things that you

Know upset the students because they Don't necessarily know where they're Supposed to be and so I was talking to My mentor and she was saying look you Know if you were a student we'd say to You why didn't you get tested for like Dyslexia and other conditions like that And I thought well that's probably a Good idea so I got tested and I found Out that I've got dyslexia dyspraxia and ADHD so full hat-trick and at this point In my life I was trying to make a Decision as to whether I wanted to Pursue a bit more private practice and See more patients which I'd continue to Do through my academic practice and Maybe do some TV work which I'd started To do a bit of and work with the media a Bit more and do some consultancy or Whether to do my PhD And getting that diagnosis made me Realize that actually I could torture Myself for three years and four years Trying to do my PhD or I could make this Decision to focus on the things that I'm Naturally good at the things I'm don't Find so challenging the things that come To me easily rather than trying to push In a Direction that's always going to be A difficulty for me so that's what I did I quit my job at Kings which was a Massive deal set up the business it kind Of a couple of years before that I did Two both at the same time for a long

Time which was far too much Um but yeah I've been running my clinic Business called City dietitians for About four years now Um outside of kings and I've got a team Of 10 or 11 maybe even 12 dietitians now With our own Specialties I also run a Consultancy company where we design Vitamins and probiotic products for Different companies and yeah I do some TV Work Media work things like this Fantastic that's like the most coherent Kind of answer to that question I've Ever heard You've clearly had practice in front of A camera Um what is a dietitian yeah great Question lovely place to start so a Dietitian is like them we're like the Medical Nutrition people is what I would Usually say so if you have a medical Problem that you want advice on in terms Of your diet you need a dietitian only Dietitian in the UK you wouldn't want to See a nutritionist for that Nutritionists aren't medically trained You wouldn't want to see a nutritional Therapist they're much more on the Alternative therapy Spectrum So dietitians are the Medical Nutrition People we're the only people who are Allowed to work in hospitals in the NHS That kind of stuff Nutritionists are basically there to

Help healthy people get healthier so They're amazing at Public Health Incredible at research but really Important to remember that anyone can Call themselves a nutritionist so in This country term nutritionist isn't Regulated which means that there are Some people who have just done a quick You know 30 pound nutritionist I don't Know training course online and now are Calling themselves nutritionist you have To be a little bit careful with the Credentials of a nutritionist that You're taking advice from but that Doesn't mean to say there aren't Incredible nutritionists out there doing Amazing work in lots of different areas So I don't mean to diminish them as Colleagues they just do a different job To us yeah and so what sort of Medical Training do you have as a dietitian a Bit like if you think about a Physiotherapist you would say okay so Physiotherapist is different to like a Massage therapist or a sports therapist They're qualified people who've gone in And done placements in hospitals and Worked alongside doctors and nurses to Learn their trade that's the same as Dietitians so we do three long Placements as part of our University Training uh where we go into hospitals And learn from other dietitians on the Job and when we are registered with the

Hdpc the healthcare professions agency And they help us to regulate everything That we do so if I do something wrong I'm accountable and I can lose my Registration like a doctor or a nurse Could unlike other people within their Profession sort of the nutrition Profession at large where there's no Accountability so they could say Anything at all and something could go Really wrong and it's not their fault Because there's no one regulating them Nice Yeah I think nutrition is one of those Things where occasionally people ask me Hey you know you're a doctor therefore Like what should I do about XY I'd be Like that sounds like nutrition we had Like two lectures on it yeah and the Start of first year no one cared about It ever since then and the only contact I had with dietitians was Oh we're we're feeding this patient Through a tube let's call The dietitian And then get them to do some alchemy and Tell us what for me to prescribe yeah Um or there would often be Cardiac Arrest calls downstairs to the Dietitians because a lot of them would Faint in the morning Um so I'm really unfamiliar with the Nutrition side of I guess medicine and Life and also with I guess the job of a Dietitian but I guess I'm you know for

For people listening to this who maybe Do not have officially diagnosed Colorectal problems or bowel problems or Stomas or things like that what does a Dietitian do for a I guess normal Healthy person so dietitians don't get Involved very much with normal healthy People we're mostly dealing with disease Or problems so most of my patients would Have a problem with their bowel it might Not be like a diagnosed thing they might Say I get this really unpleasant wind And it's really bothering me and we can Work on that but generally people will Have a problem before they come and see Me in my kind of public facing work I Guess we're talking about gut health Education and trying to get people to Look after their guts so that we don't End up in the situation where they're in My clinic with a physical problem with Their bowel or in surgery because of a Physical problem with their bowel so That's where we talk about how we can Really optimize gut health not only for Our bowel Health let's call it but also For our general health because our gut Has a massive impact on our mental Health and on our physical health and Our risk of loads of different diseases And disorders and actually the one we Look at gut health the more we realize That it isn't impacting every part of Our body and every system in our body

How did how does gut health impact all The like the the the thing that's always Struck me whenever I've listened to Podcasts where where they're talking About the gut is that it seems like the Gut is kind of this sort of Black Box we Don't quite know what's going on but we Know that it impacts literally Everything uh I wonder if you can kind Of break up in that black box a bit to What extent does the gut impact all These things that you've talked about Yeah I'd love to let's talk about that So obviously on a very basic level your Gut is where all of your nutrition is Absorbed and every bit of your body is Physically made from the foods that You're eating so if you imagine your Skin is made from proteins and lipids That come from your diet the things that You're consuming you're basically just a Big walking blob of protein with other Bits and pieces floating around in there So actually everything that we eat has An impact on the structure and function Of the whole of our body so if your gut In terms of its General function isn't Great then we can have real big problems And these are kind of things for Potentially even things like gallstones Which are Super common other bits and Pieces generally just not consuming a Very balanced diet so then you've got Has to work harder for various different

Things we're using different parts ways So having a healthy gut is super Important to the structure and function Of the whole of your body and how it's Working but that's mainly we're talking About kind of the first bit of the small Bowel so about the first bit of the Bell Which is a small vowel which is meters And meters and meters long travels into The colon and in the colon you've got Like this amazing ecosystem of bacteria And other microorganisms that are Constantly communicating with the rest Of our body and this is the bit that we Really have been learning more and more About over the last kind of 30 years or So but it's really common to the four Now how are microbiome so the the Bacteria that live in our colon are Interacting with the rest of our body And how that works is that when we eat Various different foods so let's take Plant fiber as an example you eat some Fruits and vegetables they travel the Bits of it that you can't digest the Bits we can't break down travel through To our colon where they're fermented by Different species of bacteria and yeasts And other types of microorganisms and in That fermentation process they produce Some gas and they produce other things But they put really importantly produce Some metabolites some things that Interact with our bodies so things like

Short chain fatty acids for example Butyrate is the sort of strongest Research example that we have when Butyrate is released by probiotic Bacteria in the colon that travels Through into the rest of our bloodstream And interacts with the rest of our body It helps to control inflammation we've Seen incredible work with butyrate Production being controlling of the Inflammatory Cascades associated with Covert for example so butyrates Controlling inflammation in the body Other metabolites interact with our Immune system so 70 of our immune cells Live in our small in our bowel in our Colon and your gut bacteria are Constantly interacting with them and we Also produce 95 of the body's serotonin In the gut which links to our brain Health our mental health and how we're Feeling so your gut is constantly Interacting with the rest of your body And it's physically chemically and Hormonally connected to all the other Systems in your body wow that's a lot Going on do any patients come to mind or Have you seen any stories where Someone has had like quite bad gut Health and then it's been transformed Into good good gut health and then their Whole life has changed like I wonder if You can kind of paint paint one of those Pictures for us oh my God yeah every

Week in clinic it's transformative for People and you know we've been lucky Enough to Showcase some of that on the Recent Channel 4 show that I've been on Which I'm sure we'll talk about later But just uh if you imagine somebody who Cannot control their stools so their gut Health and potentially their rectal Muscles for example are badly damaged by Maybe childbirth or just by the aging Process and so everything that they put In the top end they're constantly Fearing having incontinence fecal Incontinence in a supermarket on the bus Wherever they go and to be clear with You this isn't just old people this Happens to young people people of all Ages and stages of their life can Experience this for all sorts of Different reasons I think that's Probably the biggest example of where What I do as a dietitian can make the Biggest difference because if we can Help someone to control their bowels so They're no longer fearing having an Accident that obviously has a huge Impact on their of life it's not just Things like that you know we can get People out of pain through adjusting Their diet if you've got kind of Problems with the structure of your Bowel something like diverticular Disease for example which is super Common condition unfortunately it

Creates problems with the structure of The bowel and that can create a great Deal of pain when you're eating Particular Foods so we can adjust the Diet and get people out of physical pain And often when I'm working with patients Who have things like inflammatory bowel Disease I'll say to them look I can't cure your IBD I can't cure your Crohn's disease or Your ulcerative colitis but I can Probably help you to get out of pain and Reduce the symptoms and for them that's Perfect that's all they're asking for They're not looking to me to try and fix The problem they just want some symptom Management that they're not necessarily Getting medically and yeah those are the Sorts of things that we deal with every Week in clinic and I guess IBS is Probably the biggest one that we see a Lot of and that is less debilitating for Some people but for some people it's Incredibly debilitating with really Painful bloating and and gas and things Like that which they find very difficult Yeah okay so let's say let's say Someone's listening first and they're Thinking Hmm maybe I have a problem with My gut but I'm not really like what what Are the sorts of signs and symptoms that Someone who doesn't is not is not Diagnosed with like inflammatory bowel Disease or something might have to make

Them think huh maybe I should see a Dietitian yeah great question so I would Say what's helpful is to start with What's normal because we don't talk About poo right so people don't know What's normal and what we found in General is kind of actually people just Might live with symptoms that they don't Actually have to live with but they just Get used to them partly because they're Embarrassed to talk to anyone about it But also they've never checked what's Normal so in terms of normal bowel Function we would say that anything Between so passing stall anything Between three times a day and three Times a week is normal if that changes For you so for example you start off Being a three times a day person and Suddenly you're a three times a week Person that's when you need to get some Help something's not quite right there So we call that a change in bowel habit And I'm not talking about having Diarrhea occasionally because you've Eaten something the night before or had Too much to drink I'm talking about it Being consistent so over about a two Week period if you notice your battle Habits change significantly for you That's the time to go and get some help This consistency of your stool is the Next thing to think about so what we're Looking for is kind of like a smooth

Sausage-shaped poo that holds together When it goes into the toilet itself So most of the time that's kind of what We want most people will be somewhere Either under that Spectrum fluctuating Between the two so sometimes it's too Hard sometimes it's too soft and that's Okay as long as kind of your median your Medium range is kind of in that soft Sausage snake-like poo territory Um and then we think about kind of wider Symptoms beyond that so things like Urgency for example if you notice that You when you need a poo you really have To rush and you are worried about that And it comes on very suddenly for Example that's when you could get some Help if you find that your poo is really Hard and difficult to pass and you're Feeling uncomfortable or you're Developing hemorrhoids or piles or You're getting anal fissure so like Tears in the bottom those are things That we could help people with for sure And then if you think the color of your Poo might be a bit funny it's an Interesting thing to talk about but the Color of your poo needs to be like a Medium brown color is normal Occasionally you might eat loads of Sweet potato and it might be a bit more Orange or you might have a green Smoothie and it might be a bit more Green that's fine but as an average if

It's kind of a medium brown color that's Great and we don't want it to actually Be ridiculously smelly so if your poo is Like really foul smelling we would think That maybe you're not absorbing Everything from your food and that's Something to look at or you might have a Really affected microbiome that needs Some work if you've got loads of gas That's really uncomfortable for you and Or it's particularly smelly that's a Time that we can do some things to make That better for you we've got any Abdominal pain at all really important Time to get some help even if it's that Kind of pain that you're thinking I know it comes and goes I think it's Probably okay definitely go and chat to Somebody about that because there's Things that we can do to make it better So in terms of normal and things you Could get help with I think that kind of Covers the basics of of what people Might be living with and just putting up With that actually they could get some Help with and that are probably signs That something's not quite right in Terms of their gut health As you were describing the snake-like Snake uh sausage consistency I was Thinking that my poo was often a lot Softer than that until I started taking The heights Prebiotic probiotics that Tablet thing yeah and now I'm always

Surprised that like oh this looks like a Normal poo it looks like what I think a Normal Perth um so that's been nice Um What if someone Feels like they their poo is normal Based on all these kind of parameters That we've talked about Is there any reason for someone with Normal poo to be thinking about their Like diet and nutrition in that sense Like are there other optimizations that Healthy people without gut problems can Make to improve like productivity Performance that kind of thing yeah for Sure so if you've got is not quite Working optimally then that can even Though you might not have any specific Symptoms it can still have an impact on Your mental health and your mental Performance right so your gut is such an Integral part of your whole body system And ecosystem and inevitably if it's not Happy it's going to be screaming at your Brain all the time and that is noisy and Difficult for your brain to cope with And that could lead to things like brain Fog and struggling with focus and Concentration for example similarly if Your gut isn't happy but you don't Really know from other symptoms but You're getting loads of bugs infections Viruses all the time you notice you're Really susceptible that's a good time to

Start looking at your gut health and I Think I guess for this audience what's Really important to recognize is this Connection between your gut and your Brain and how they are constantly Communicating with each other for better Or worse so there is a very strong line Of communication between your gut and Your brain which we refer to as the gut Brain axis and again they are chemically Connected through neurotransmitters that Are produced in the gut they are Hormonally connected by the HPA axis and They are physically connected by the Vagus nerve and the chattiest organ Between your brain and your gut is your Gut your gut is constantly telling your Brain all sorts of different things and Throwing messages up that it's got to Deal with and people might think oh it's Your brain you've got it's not really Doing anything but actually your brain Is busy and it's communicating and it's A lot through those microbes that live In your colon Sick You're very good at this thanks it's not My first time you've got the whole like Wow [Music] Um so what can I do for example as a Proxy for people listening to this My poo is fine once a day you know Medium brown color not overly smelly I

Think but everyone like the smell of the Red poo apparently Um but Obviously I want to kind of maximize my Performance and my focus and actually One question we we get so often from our Audience is people struggling to focus And I think often people are like I Struggle to focus with my schoolwork or With my whatever web design side hustle I must have ADHD as like an immediate Option but I wonder if there's gut stuff We can do before we get to that point Yeah definitely I mean your gut health Is so because your gut is constantly Communicating with your brain again if Your gut is not happy things are Communicating differently but also you Could just not be producing enough Serotonin for various different reasons Or your gut might not be sending the Right signals up to your brain so you Might have if we looked at your Microbiome and it's certainly not Necessary to do that we can do this in Clinic without testing but if we looked At your microbiome we might find that You've just not got enough of these Bacteria that are doing this particular Important job with brain connection Stuff Um so what we would suggest then is to Really optimize the gut and you know What happens Ali as you know is when

People are busy and they're working too Hard and they're doing a side hustle and Everything else is high pressure or They've got a family and everything else People tend to make their a diet quite Small in not necessarily in terms of Volume but the types of foods that They're eating so they might end up Eating the same types of foods on repeat What I see is people as kind of two Camps here the people who do like the Meal prep stuff and they eat the same Foods five days a week and they think They're being super healthy eating sweet Potato and broccoli every day or you Have the people who are just living meal To meal prep you know Etsy wherever They're going every day the same sorts Of things but just various different Places and nothing's particularly Planned or thought through and Inevitably both of those ways of eating Have an impact on your gut health Whether you feel it in your gut or not So that way of eating limits the types Of fibers that you'll get bacteria being Fed and the most important thing for Your gut health is that you're eating 30 Different plants a week so trying to eat Loads of variety of different types of Plants that includes fruit and veg but Also nuts and whole grains different Types of grains we're super fixated in This country on like oats and wheat but

Actually there's so many different types Of grains that our guttery benefits from So when you're busy and you're Struggling and you're eating meal to Meal or you're eating the same Foods on Repeat what happens is you've got Health You've got sort of function might not Change but your gut health is inevitably Not optimized and that's when you can Have these problems with lack of Concentration Focus energy getting bugs All the time that kind of stuff and Really interestingly your gut bacteria Communicate with your hypothalamus so That bit of your brain that controls Things like cortisol production so Really early in your life your gut Bacteria dictate where your sort of HPA Axis is set so how much core style you Release in under given circumstances and We all need some cortisol right but we Don't want loads and loads of cortisol Because we've got loads of anxiety and Stress all the time we can really Struggle to concentrate and to focus so We can use our gut bacteria to try and Reduce that and make things a little bit Better in that department we can use Them and harness their powers to get More serotonin which helps us with Better sleep and concentration and focus And all those important things those Happy hormones and we can also just try And calm down those messages from our

Gut to our brain which are distracting Our brain all the time and your gut Bacteria are going to be saying we need More plants and you're going to be not Reading that properly and giving them More Sushi and that's not quite what They want wow so It sounds like you're saying please Correct me if this is an Oversimplification that changing up what You eat can have a massive impact on Your Focus productivity performance Happiness absolutely because all of Those things are linked gut brain Everything yeah fundamentally I mean and Proven in amazing research in science Yeah what kind of research has been done On this I guess I'm I'm thinking healthy People rather than people with official Gut problems yeah so uh the amazing work Of John cryen is a really good place to To start looking at this stuff if people Are interested and he's written an Amazing book called The psychobiotic Revolution so psychobiotics are these Gut bacteria that communicate with our Brain so they're the ones that we're Particularly interested in when we Develop the height smart probiotic for Example so work that's been done in that Area to start within rodent models they Used a model of an autistic mouse and a Model of a non-autistic mouse or Sociable Mouse and they took the

Microbiome so they took a sample and and Gave the microbiome of the autistic Mouse to the sociable Mouse and the Sociable Mouse starts to show autistic Traits okay and when they swap them over The autistic Mouse starts to become a Sociable Mouse just because it's got Microbiomass changed yeah so that was The early work that they did trying to Understand how much our gut microbiome Is impacted impacting our mental health Our mental performance how our brain is Working so similar studies to that have Then been replicated in humans in other Places and to be clear that autistic Spectrum Disorder stuff in humans is so Complex and we can't replicate that Exactly in humans as yet but there's Certainly something going on there which Is what we generally learn from rodent Studies we've also got some great data Showing things like increase in Production of Serotonin when we use Particular probiotic species there's Great data showing that using particular Probiotic species within treatment diets And things like that so within treatment Within studies in controlled studies Improves anxiety depression all of these Kinds of symptoms and wider nutrients Within this world if we think about Things like Omega-3s and B vitamins They've been used in place of anxiety And depression medications ssris that

Kind of stuff and they work as Effectively in some people some of the Time in study so we can use all of these Things and a similar work has been done With the two straight one two of the Strains we use in the smart probiotic in Terms of seeing whether they work as Effectively as common anti-depression Anti-anxiety medications and they do so Much so that there's Health claims on Them in Canada that people can say these Are definitely shown to improve anxiety And depression So there's great data it's a young field Of research but it's super exciting and It's very solid research just showing That the magic that we can harness from Our gut Nice Sweet so clearly there's a lot going on Uh one of the things you said um nice Actionable takeaway for me and anyone Listening to this 30 different plants a Week I know that's a lot it sounds like A lot but actually if you break it down Into days you're looking for about five Different plants a day so what you would Say is like for example for breakfast if You had like a multi-grain cereal or a Whole grain cereal you're gonna have Loads of different in there in there Chuck some seeds in Chuck some nuts in Chuck some dried fruit and I love Freeze-dried berries amazing Chuck some

Of that stuff in and actually you're Kind of already there with at least five Different plants in there then at lunch Time maybe between your lunch and your Breakfast you could have a handful of Nuts there lunch time make sure you're Having at least a couple of different Veg in there maybe Chuck some seeds on Top and then in the afternoon you want To have some fruit as a snack and in the Evening make sure you're having some veg Like actually if you spread it out like That it's totally achievable for people Unless you're doing one of these funny Restrictive diets that you know nobody Would recommend anyway all right we're Just going to take a quick break from The podcast to introduce our sponsor Which is very excitingly heal I have Been a pain customer of huel since 2017 So it's been about six years now that I've been using Hill fairly regularly I Started eating Hill in my fifth year of Medical school and I've been using heel Regularly ever since because you know I Like to be productive I've you know my Calendar is full with a lot of things And often I don't have the time or don't Make the time to have a particularly Healthy breakfast or a particularly Healthy lunch my favorite flavor is Salted caramel because 400 calories you Get 40 grams of protein which is Absolutely insane and you also get a

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Eat the same thing every day broadly so That you know what's coming into your Body and then we can see how that Affects your weight all that kind of Stuff I mean you can see me cringing Right absolutely terrible advice so I Literally I've got some content planned For this week around what terrible Advice I see from personal trainers and I'm sure your guy knows what he's doing In terms of personal training but the Worst things that personal trainers do There's three things I see them doing Regularly for people one is putting them On the same Foods on repeat because You're starving off your essential gut Bacteria and some of those really Important gut bacteria are actually Protecting you from obesity so they're Working to help you to control your body Weight and so if you're starving them You're making your life much more Difficult in the long run secondly it's Like this really low fiber diet Typically and so that's just as a Measure of them cutting out Carbohydrates nobody's look to check Because they don't know what they don't Know right no one's checked that there's At least 30 grams of fiber in there Which is what we all need every day for Healthy for healthy stores and a healthy Bowel usually they're around 16 grams of Fiber when we calculate them it's just

Half of what we need and then the other Thing is having loads of red meat or Loads of animal products generally so The world cancer research fund says we Should only have three portions of red Meat per week and that's 500 grams 350 To 500 grams in total otherwise we're Putting ourselves Not every day no about 350 to 500 grams Total a week otherwise we're putting Ourselves at higher risk of bowel cancer And so again these meal plans that People are given actually are starving Your gut bacteria which puts you at risk Of loads of different problems putting You at higher risk of things like cancer Which nobody wants and all kinds of Other things but it's it's not the fault Or the personal trainer it's but going Circling back to this conversation of Nutrition for people in the nutrition Space giving advice on things they just Shouldn't really be giving advice on Right so if you want nutrition advice And tailored specific nutrition advice For you you need to see we've got an Amazing Sports dietitian on the team at City dietitians who can tailor all these Things for you and give you a proper Tailored plan that note that you can Actually manage in terms of everything As opposed to just thinking about that One thing which is the Aesthetics which Everyone gets fixated on oh that's handy

I'll book an appointment with that'll be Good 30 grams of fiber what does 30 grams of Fiber look like in a diet well it's About half of what the average person is Getting oh sorry it's about double what The average person is getting so most People in England eat less than half of What they actually need in terms of Fiber every day so most people are Getting around 15 grams of fiber a day So we need to make sure we're adding Lots of extra things in things have Happened within the social media space That have made that happen so for Example people now demonize breakfast Cereals where actually loads of us got Loads of fiber from breakfast cereals Every day women were mainly dependent on Breakfast cereals for iron for a long Time and slightly different now but Actually we cut these things out because An influencer tells us to and actually There's consequences for everything that We move around in our diet right so Thinking about where your sources of Fiber are so we're talking about whole Grains fruits and vegetables nuts and Seeds that kind of stuff where are your Sources of those in your diet and could You maximize them so for example Swapping white rice for whole grain rice Is a really great step in the right Direction white rice for whole grain

Pasta if you're having like mince for Example so minced beef add some lentils In there just bulking up the fiber a Little bit leave the skin on your Vegetables on root vegetables that kind Of stuff leave the skin on get a bit More fiber there make sure you snack on Fruit those kinds of things it's Basically the stuff that your mum would Have told you to do when you're a kid It's all that stuff we need to do to try And boost our fiber intake and most People just aren't getting enough what To do with breakfast cereal my in in my Influencer adult understanding is Breakfast cereal is bad because lots of Sugar and American advertising companies Convinced us that breakfast was the most Important meal of the day that's BS we Should all be intermittent fasting and Just skipping breakfast in the morning Anyway because 68 fasting is good for You so therefore breakfast cereal is Evil yeah sure yeah I mean I hear all Those things as well I think the key Thing with breakfast cereal is it can Very easily become what we might call an Ultra processed food and that's where It's just got loads of extra additives In it that you wouldn't recognize in Your kitchen preservatives emulsify as That kind of stuff lots of extra sugar Salt all those kinds of things so we Want to avoid those ones so the ones

That look like they're super commercial Will probably want to push them out the Window but you can add things in in Terms of making your own sort of Breakfast so you can toast them out just Toast some stuff to make granola that Kind of stuff some of the more natural Granolas would be a good choice for you But in terms of fasting there's no Evidence of any benefits of fasting Beyond weight control so there is some Reasonable data to show that fasting can Improve weight control but also there's This count interacting data coming Through now where people who don't eat Enough in the morning and tend to Overcompensate and eat much more in the Evening and that's worse for us from a Metabolic perspective we've kind of got This biological night of around 9pm Where all of our processing of Everything slows right down so things Can sit around in our bloodstream a lot Longer and cause more trouble if we're Eating too late at night so actually if You're someone who wakes up hungry and You're dragging yourself through till 12 O'clock into your eating window and You're feeling terribly got headaches And you feel awful that's obviously not The right way for you to be eating your Body and we're all different from a Circadian rhythm perspective right our Body clock is all different so if you're

Someone who feels hungry in the morning You should eat in the morning just Listen to your body be a normal person If you are someone who just doesn't feel Very hungry at night you might find it Easier to finish eating at six o'clock And that might work really well for you But really importantly if you're trying Intermittent fasting and you notice that You're really loading those calories Later in the day it's probably not right For you most studies will show that Actually if you have some calories in The morning and front load your calories A little bit you'll reduce your calories Later in the day which is metabolically A bit better for us what about things Like chicken and fish what are like How much chicken and fish should I be Eating so your body your breath your Bowel doesn't particularly like red meat It certainly doesn't like processed meat So the the data on process meat says Little if any processed meat for Protection of bowel cancer so process Might be things like sausages bacon even Things like cured meats that kind of Stuff is just not great for our bowel Health and any animal meat any animal Proteins our body our bowel can quickly Find that too much so a good example That people might recognize is if you Ate like a meat Feast pizza or like had A massively heavy meaty meal usually

Your gas the next day or later that Evening is going to be pretty foul Smelling and that's because when we have Too much animal protein in particular It's then some of that leftover protein That we can't absorb and digest is being Fermented by really bad types of Bacteria they're really not good guys That we don't want to be feeding and When they ferment stuff they release Methane and sulfur and these bad Smelling gases so if you're having Really fast smelling wind the chances Are you might be over feeding those guys That don't you don't want to be feeding Them too much so we can help to balance That out clinically and in with Treatment Um so excess protein from any Source Excess animal protein from any source is Not ideal for people so your gut health Your gut bacteria also really like plant Protein so things like soya and tofu That kind of thing so ultimately it's About getting that balance right and if You're someone who is having meat for Lunch like twice a day you're probably Having too much meat hmm now okay Um how How do I get my protein if not from meat Great question so you can use plant Sources of protein so like tofu soy and Products that kind of stuff and Obviously we want it to also not be

Ultra processed so I'm not talking about That beyond meat burger or that highly Processed vegan product what I'm talking About is adding tofu to your stir fry For example using the minimally Processed soya mince in place of beef Mince for example still great sources of Protein for you and absolutely no harm Eggs are slightly less dramatic in terms Of your bowel function than uh meat is So a bit easier for you to digest and Fish is even better so if you're having Fish regularly that's great for you in Terms of protein Source also great for Your brain lots of benefits having fish A bit more regularly than meat what are The benefits of fish Which is magical All kind of evolved to need a lot of Fish in our diet and in England we just Like nobody eats the two portions of Oily fish a week that was recommended Right if we did the supermarkets would Be sold out tomorrow we need two portion Of oily fish a week for our brain health It's really really important for Controlling inflammation in the brain The structure of your brain my very Clever colleague Kimberly Wilson says That if you take out if you don't eat Oily fish it's a bit like taking out 25 Of the bricks of your house and Replacing them with polystyrene 25 of Your brain wants to be made from oily

Fish right so if you take it out of your Diet it's a bit like replacing 25 of the Bricks in your house with polystyrene it Kind of looks the same structurally but Under a strong wind you can have a real Problem and it's very much the same with Our brain health so you really want to Make sure you're getting at least two Portions of oily fish a week or taking In omega-3 supplement if you're a vegan That could come from an algae oil source And that's equally as good in terms of Our brain function but also your gut Bacteria love Omega-3s so it's really Good for helping to promote the Populations of beneficial bacteria that Helps control inflammation the body all That kind of stuff so omega-3 from fish Is super super important for our bodies But it's also a great source of lean Protein What do we mean by oily fish so oily Fish is like the ones that taste a bit More fishy but salmon is a great example That people find really accessible so That's good but also mackerel is perfect We could use sardines that kind of stuff The ones that are in tins they're a bit More fishy there's a lot of people Benefit from the most tender tuna no Unfortunately not an oily fish oh I know That's annoying and that's what we all Eat right yeah okay so salmon twice a Week would be good for me perfect

Fantastic I like salmon salmon is tasty Um To what extent can I just be like you Know what I accept all this stuff but I can't be Asked to change my diet too much if I Just take the appropriate number of Supplements I'm good right Yeah no it doesn't really well Unfortunately so we need to think of Supplements as being like the icing on The cake right so we still need to do The foundational work if those if we Want those supplements to be working for Us so it doesn't matter how many pills You pop ultimately if your diet is Terrible you're really stressed all the Time you're not looking after your Mental health you're not exercising You're not looking after your body You're still going to struggle you're Still going to suffer so you need to be Doing some of those foundational things And then taking your supplements on top To try and get things in line and with Probiotics that's even more important Because you can take as many probiotic Bacterias you like in capsule form or as Kefir or however you want to but if You're not feeding them with plant fiber When they get to your colon they're not Going to survive there's nothing there For them to eat so we have to make sure That we feed them when they get there

Some people will put prebiotics or food For good bacteria in their supplements But actually need quite a lot of that Prebiotic fiber to make any difference And actually the best way of getting That Prebiotic fiber is from your food From the food that you're eating so it's Really important to encourage people to Still maintain a healthy diet and look After the other things Um because we need to do all the things Unfortunately nice okay so Less than well 500 grams red meat per Week preferably two percent 500 grams Yeah 350 to 500. you've got that down Okay down yep I'm like It's like a single stake it's like I Love that Um 30 grams of fiber a day which most of Us are not getting so we need to add More seeds grains whole grains yep fruit Veg that has like texture and stuff to It because that's fiber two portions of Oily fish a week adding adding in soy Mints and tofu and to replace animal Products sometimes yeah anything else What are some other yeah I guess gut Bacteria does not like processed food so We think that things like oh well if you Imagine preservatives that are put in Processed food are there to to make sure Bacteria doesn't grow you can then Extrapolate that and think okay well What's that doing in my body so when I'm

Consuming these foods with preservatives Actually are they killing off my good Bacteria or at least stopping them from Growing so that's something to think About emulsifiers that are in lots of Processed foods and also in lots of Foods that I've got a bit of a health Halo like protein shakes and protein Products that kind of stuff emulsifiers We think are disrupting the lining of People's bowels so when we have too much Of those kinds of things that tight Junctions between the cells in your Bowel wall we think are being disrupted And opening up a little bit allowing too Much inflammation into the body and Causing all kinds of different problems But also disrupting that really Important mucosal layer in the bowel That is the home for our good bacteria So emulsifier is not great they're in Plant milks and stuff like that so we Keep a little out for those Um anything that is kind of an added Ingredient that you don't recognize is Something that we want to be a little Bit careful of and there's this amazing Data now about Ultra processed foods and How much they are impacting our risk of Cancers and all kinds of other Conditions so an ultra processed food is Something that we do want to consider Trying to avoid again lots of vegan Products would end up in the ultra

Processed food category even though They've got this health Halo so we need To watch out of ultra processed foods Defined by all of these ingredients that You don't recognize we want to think About Um you got back to just don't like them For lots of different reasons but that's Part of it processed Meats in particular Gut bacteria I really don't like those When we're stressed I'm really anxious All the time we produce more stomach Acid we produce more enzymes things Happen differently in our gut lots of People will recognize that when they're Stressed they maybe have diarrhea or Wind or they're bloated or they're Uncomfortable and so that's because when You're stressed your structure and Function of your gut changes slightly And everything is more difficult but Also when it's a more acidic environment That changes the pH of the gut when the PH of the gut is changed that has an Impact on which bacteria can Thrive and Survive and ultimately if you've got too Much stomach acid and there's two it's Too much of a acidic environment you're Going to develop more of the gut Bacteria that are associated with more Stress more information worse Health Outcomes So Stress Management Careful with ultra processed foods and

Processed food in general and also drink Enough water but bacteria really like Should be very well hydrated so there's Things that you can do as well as adding Things in just to be a little bit wary Of but one of the nice things about gut Health is really I'm talking to people Adding things in what more do you need To take in as opposed to taking things Away which is kind of what Ultra like Diet culture is all about right so it's About mostly about adding things in and Ultimately what we see from the data is When people add more plants in it Displaces some of these less healthy Things in their diet anyway so if you're Snacking on nuts and fruit you're not Going to be snacking so much on on you Know protein bars and stuff like that so That helps people to move into these Healthier patterns anyway Love it um does tea coffee count as Hydration or does it have to be like Water water so tea is quite good for Hydration and coffee and tea both Contains something called polyphenols Which will get bacteria love polyphenols Are these kind of plant compounds that Are in all different plants and really Importantly and interestingly the Different colored plants all have Different polyphenols in so like the Purple ones are great for your brain Health and the orange and yellow ones

Are great for controlling inflammation And diabetes and stuff like that so they All have slightly different jobs in our Bodies anti and coffee contain important Polyphenols that are really healthy and Helpful for us but coffee you lose a bit Of hydration every time you drink a Coffee so it kind of has a net negative Effect in terms of your overall Hydration and that's because it's a Diuretic same as tea so it makes you wee More and you lose more water and then You end up not as well hydrated so what I recommend to all my patients is that While they're making a cup of tea or They're making a coffee just drink a Small glass of water on the side and Then you know that you've got enough Going in and also just trying to make Sure people are drinking water through The day Right so the 300 mils of Fluid in this I'm net like less than That well because the data is not quite Perfect but I would say you're probably Only getting maybe about 25 mils from That really something like that yeah Damn okay I should drink more water you Should cool real Um what how how do I know if a food is Processed what are some rules of thumb I Mean essentially if it comes in a packet If it's been through a factory and it's Come in a packet it's going to be

Processed by sometimes sausages Um any kind of like ready meal type Stuff Has lots of white bread that would for General breads that would fall into that Ultra process category because to make Bread you need flour and you need yeast And you need salt and you need water but The ingredients list on some of the Breads that you might pick up on the Supermarket shelf is going to be so long And so complicated and have all kinds of Preservatives and emulsifiers and stuff Like that in it that actually ends up Being an ultra processed food and we're In a difficult time alley because people Are struggling right it's a financial Crisis people are struggling to eat Anything at all so it's really important That we are careful about not demonizing Food Staples that people can't afford if You're living in a food living off food From a food bank and all you can get Your hands on is baked beans and Ultra Processed bread and cereal you've got to Eat it right I don't want anyone to take Away from this that it's so harmful for The health they should go hungry that's Not the case at all we're talking really Here about refining Health as opposed to People who are struggling right so there Are Ultra processities that we need to Be careful of and we need to look at Those labels it's about those long

Ingredients lists with emulsifiers Things that have got a code like Colorings e-numbers that kind of stuff Those are the sorts of things to look Out for and that would be your your clue That that's an ultra processed food nice So let's say you and I go to a local I Don't know grilled chicken shop after This and we get and we're going to get a Takeaway Or just in general when I went out at a Restaurant what are some good rules of Thumbs for what people should order or Should avoid ordering I like I think if You're eating out unless you're eating Out every day or super super regularly You should enjoy it right it's an Important thing to so to be able to eat Socially and to be relaxed when you're Eating and not to worry about it too Much but the same kinds of rules would Apply so try to eat as many plants as You can even if that means ordering an Extra side of broccoli or spinach or Whatever it is on the side of what You're having we know that frying Potatoes for example has an impact on Our health in general so fried potato Products are not great for us so try to Limit those a little bit I mean chips Are literally my favorite thing so Trying to limit those a little bit is Helpful and important for people so just Sort of thinking especially if you're

Eating out really regularly where are my Sources of vegetables here am I getting Enough am I getting some lean protein And trying to kind of piece things Together in your mind about what's going On in like on a if you zoom out of your Diet a little bit what have I had to eat Today what do I need more of what do I Not need so much of is helpful But if you're eating out you should Enjoy it and have a nice time nice Um what's the deal with organic food Yeah I mean nothing really it's just Really a marketing term so There's no great data to suggest that Eating an organic diet is going to have Any significant health benefits for you The pesticides and stuff that are used In the food chain now are very carefully Researched there's very little data to Show there's anything that might do you Any harm what is potentially more Interesting in that field which isn't Really talked about is that when soil Has been really heavily commercially Farmed it becomes less rich in nutrients Than your fruit and vegetables can Become less rich in nutrients whereas if We scale that down to kind of buying Locally so from your local farmers Market for example less heavily you know Farmed land more nutrients in soil more Nutrients in your fruits and vegetables So by and also food miles so any food

That's been through various different Lorries and everything else or airplanes To get to your plate that's going to Have a depletion of those nutrients over Time so if you can buy local as much as You can that's much more relevant really To our nutritional status than buying Organic necessarily is oh nice Um what's the deal with uh diet cook and Other non-sugar zero sugar about lots of Artificial sweetener type drinks yeah You've got bacteria don't like Artificial sweeteners unfortunately Um you know they're they're safe from Like a cancer perspective and all that Kind of stuff there's not so much don't Worry too much about that kind of hype But what we do know is that when we have Artificial sweeteners our body is Anticipating having sugar and things Change to get ready to have that sugar And when it doesn't come that has an Impact so there's data to suggest that It increases our insulin production for Example which makes us also really Ultimately a bit hungrier and can have An impact on our General Health as well So ideally sweeteners need to go in There no thank you bucket as well which Is difficult for people right because You know when people are trying to get Off sugar sweeteners seem to be a good Thing and to be clear if you're someone Who is having loads of sugar right now

You're better off having some sweeteners And trying to wean yourself down a Little bit rather than kind of trying to Go cold turkey which will ultimately Probably fail when I speak to people who Have lots of Diet Coke in their diet or Diet drinks in general I generally say All right let's swap one that's doing Like an alternate thing so if you're Having four a day at the moment let's go For like swap one for like a sparkling Water then have one next time then have A sparkling also have another one and Just try to reduce it slightly rather Than taking them away altogether What's a deal with fruit juices so fruit Juice can have some benefits right it's Got loads of vitamins and minerals in it And stuff like that so some useful stuff But also it's a still like a slightly Processed food and that means that our Body handles it differently to how it Would handle the whole fruit for example So if you eat you'd struggle to eat like Five oranges but you could have a glass Of orange juice even quite a small one That's got the juice from five oranges In it so this actually ends up being Quite a lot of fructose the fruit sugar There and it's just a bit more difficult For our body to process it then we just End up having a bit more of a blood Sugar Spike and that kind of stuff that We don't really want to be encouraging

So a small glass of fruit juice every Day is great we're talking about Something like 150 ml but most people Are chugging like a big bottle of fruit Juice and that can end up being just Just more sugar than you want to be Consuming in one go basically Um is tomato juice special So there's some interesting data around Lycopene from Tomatoes which is a Polyphenol and it's protection against Things like prostate cancer for example In men so there's some benefits that Kind of stuff like opinions also really Good for your eyes and other organs in Your body and of course tomatoes have a Lot less sugar in them than oranges or Apples or whatever other sort of juice You might have so again a small just Glass of tomato juice would be good You're still better off eating the Tomatoes themselves because you've got All the fiber and all the other benefits Then I'm I'm just gonna throw some bait At you because all that all the Healthcare bananas are bad because they Don't have fiber bananas are great for You this is a there's a medical Conference a few years ago where and It's famed now where there's all this Sort of really famed like low carb Community there and we can talk a bit More about low carb and whites but Dangerous but like the low carbo

Community of demonized bananas and there Was a medical conference with proper Doctors and everyone booed a banana when Someone said and then I ate a banana and This is what it's just my blood sugars Everyone in the audience booed they Booed a banana this is how messed up This whole world has become like this Wild to me if yeah you know let's say Five years ago I could at least we could All just at least agree that everyone Needs to eat more fruits and vegetables And now the low carbers and the Carnivores have come along and even when I say you just need to eat more Vegetables but those people are like no No not true you shouldn't be ignition Being that nonsense more plants the Better nice the because I love Bananas and I've been being like oh Banana bad because carbon no fiber no You're all good Um low carb what's going on there just Starving off your colonic friends I see Lots and lots of patients in clinic who Have had who've been on a ketogenic diet And inverted commas or been on a very Low carbohydrate diet and ended up with Really terrible IBS ended up with Horrendous piles because they were so Constipated ends up with all kinds of Trouble and the whole grains that we Need to eat in order for our gut Bacteria to be as healthy as possible

Come from all sorts of different sources Of whole grains and so when we cut out Carbs altogether we're not having any Grains whatsoever in our diet and then We're starving off like really crucial Species of probiotic bacteria that do These amazing things in our body that We've talked about before so when you go On a low carb diet you're starving off Some of your really important friends in Your colon you're not feeding them and That leads to all kinds of trouble Including overpopulation of negative Types of bacteria which have negative Consequences on our health so eating a Wide variety of foods in including Grains and pulses and all that kind of Stuff is really really important for our Overall health and particular of our Health So if I am trying to If I'm trying to get shredded and you Know keep the protein fairly High reduce The calories Um my tactics so far has been avoid Anything that remotely looks like a Co-op unless a friend has got chips Because it doesn't count if I still if You you know a few of theirs it sounds Like you're suggesting the carbohydrates Are evil approach is kind of bad and Instead I should be like maybe I'll have A little bit less rice than I normally Would but I've still got that in my

System yeah it totally all have whole Grain rice because you could just can't Physically eat as much of it so whole Grain carbohydrates keep us full for a Long time like protein does so when We're trying to manage our weight Satiety being full is really really Important so having higher protein diet Good having higher whole grains really Good for maintaining satiety keeping you Full between meals Stopping You snacking And when people move to like having a Small piece of fish and then loads of Green veg just starving all the time Like it's miserable and it's not good For you ultimately so let's try and Balance that out a little bit get some Whole grain carbohydrates in there and I'm not talking about you going and Eating a massive bowl of white rice or Having I don't know a massive bowl of Pasta we're talking about having Introducing some more whole grain Carbohydrates in your diet to feed your Friends keep me Fuller for longer and to Try to manage your weight in the way That you want it to be managed all right We're going to take a very quick break From this episode to introduce our Sponsor which is brilliant.org I've been Using brilliant for the last several Years and they're a fantastic online Platform for courses in maths and Science and computer science brilliant

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So much wework for sponsoring this Episode what's the deal with the Ketogenic diet loads of tech browser Particularly big on that I know I wish They would stop so the ketogenic diet Was developed for children with epilepsy Which I think is a fairly commonly known Story now the only indication for a Ketogenic diet is for children and Adults who have epilepsy because yeah Totally yeah so we use it in clinical Practice for that Soul Purpose nothing Else and there is some really Interesting data and useful data now That suggests that lower carbohydrate Diets are helpful for weight control but There are inevitably consequences to That in terms of microbiome and other Things so lower carbohydrate diets Useful and generally reasonably Sustainable for people who need to lose A lot of weight over a long period of Time but ketogenic diets where the Carbohydrate intake is so low are like Almost consistently completely Unsustainable for people meaning that They then fail on potentially another Diet they feel like they're a failure Nothing can happen they can't do Anything their kind of self-esteem a Self-est efficacy goes right down people Give up on weight loss and everything Gets to be a disaster so it's all about Balance and managing things properly and

No qualified dietitian or other Healthcare professional or would Recommend a ketogenic diet to anyone Because we are aware of the consequences It's just the I don't know shouty people that not Properly qualified in this area that are Doing it What are your thoughts on one meal a day I mean can you get 30 plants in one meal A day alley probably not yeah exactly That's my thoughts on it essentially That's a summary of my thoughts on it You cannot possibly get all of the Nutrients that you need for one day in One meal because you can't physically Fit it into your body and so ultimately You're gonna be affecting your gut Health affecting your General Health and You know if you think about the Opportunities that you've got to have Oily fish twice a week for example You're gonna have to think about that Over one meal rather than having more Than one opportunity to have those Really healthy things so if you think You can fit at least five portions of Fruits and vegetables and nuts and seeds And all the other stuff that you need to Have to be healthy into one meal a day That's up to you but I don't think it Will fit in your body Um uh what's the deal with the carnivore Diet oh my God the carnivore diet is

Just I think one of the worst things That's happened recently isn't it it's It's horrendous for your gut health Right horrendous you're obviously Completely starving off your microbiome These guys are inevitably going to end Up with and it is mostly guys I'm going To end up with heart disease with high Cholesterol with all kinds of problems But their colons are going to be an Absolute mess because they're basically Only feeding those negative bacteria That are having Health negative Health Consequences because the diet is just Protein so for anyone that doesn't know And please don't Google it the carnivore Diet is where you just eat meat and There was this guy I can't remember what He called himself now but he was like The king of the carnivores right the Liver King liver King oh yeah this dude Was eating like raw brain and testicles And all kinds of stuff and saying that You had to do this stuff to follow Proper ancestral lifestyle and then it's Recently come out that of course he was Actually just taking loads of steroids And loads and like spending something Like 15 000 a month on his steroid regime to Look the way that he did whilst all the Time he was amassing like millions of Followers claiming that he wasn't taking Any steroids at all and just just for a

Little reminder for anyone's not sure Anyone who looks like they're taking Steroids is definitely I don't doubt it just go with your Instinct and think yeah it would be Really difficult to get like that just From eating brains and and testicles Right it just doesn't work like that It's not how the body works Um What do you think so How do dietitians feel about The word diet Great question I think it's it's such a Difficult world that we live in and I Guess when the word dietitian came along It wasn't associated with diet culture And the negative sides like aspects of That that there is now And you know we sort of go through these Discussions as a profession about Whether dietitian is a good word for us Because it has people often still say to Me also you help people to lose weight Like I don't do that at all we're very Medical as you know and like dietitian Might be working in In with people with kidney problems or I Worked in intensive care for a long time We worked with cancer patients we just Do this medical stuff and none of it is About trying to help people lose weight Some some dietitians do work in obesity Management but it's maybe you know less

Than 10 of the profession So diet and diet culture are synonymous With bad news and this way that all These diets that we're talking about the Keto diet carnivore diet all this kind Of stuff even fasting is all about Making generally healthy people thinner And being fixated on thinness as part of People feeling better about themselves Because we live in this kind of fat Phobic Society it's all very complicated These days and I think one of the things That's important to recognize is that Being very overweight and eating a very Poor quality diet not exercising not Looking after your body being very Stressed is really really bad for you But actually all of our bodies are meant To be a different shape and size and Sometimes bits of our lives are Dedicated to being as healthy as we can Be and other times in your life you Might be raising children or working two Jobs or having a side hustle as well and If you add the pressure of being as thin As you possibly can be or shredded as You possibly can be into that mix you're Putting so much pressure on yourself and It's just not healthy for you and you're Going to be full of cortisol which makes You carry more weight anyway so we have To have kind of a elevated view on our Body shape and size what's normal and Healthy for us might be normal not be

Normal and healthy for somebody else so Diet culture and dieting is a Complicated and difficult area that is Very uh controversial these days Interestingly so it's something we I'm Constantly thinking about in terms of my Title as a dietitian because it just Feels not quite accurate as to what I do Really How has A diet culture Evolved over the last let's say 20 30 Years it would have been the trends that You've seen of So if about my mom's Generation all that They were exposed to in terms of female Bodies were very very slim women on Magazines right so in magazines in books On the TV sometimes but it was very much The thin ideal so the thinner the better At all costs there's no such thing as Too thin Kate Moss generation of like Then sort of bit later Kate Moss Generation of nothing tastes as good as Skinny feels these are all the messages Funnily enough conversation my friend This morning about the sidebar of Shame Which was basically pictures of this is In more in the 90s of like Jennifer Lopez with a tiny bit of cellulite on The beach circled saying sidebar of Shame in the Daily Mail in women's Magazines it was all about the thinner The better and anyone seen to be

Carrying any additional weight was Shamed circle around the bit that they Were saying was not good all that kind Of stuff and then of course when women Did lose too much weight they were told They were too skinny and everything was Awful and they had something wrong with Them but they've just been shamed into It and then we had the social media and We had Instagram so I think about Instagram coming in something like 11 Years ago now young women are exposed to All sorts of different shapes and sizes Of bodies now but the the body shape That we're told that we have to have now Is this kind of tiny waist massive bum Big boobs but you have to have a thigh Gap and you have to be able to fit your Fingers around hands around your waist And and you have to do this and you have To have visible abs and everything else And a lot of that stuff is obviously not Necessary obviously it's physiologically Impossible unless you've had surgery Right so if you're doing loads of squats Unless you have a very specific pelvic Shape if you're doing loads and loads of Squats you're going to build up your Inner thigh muscles as well so you end Up without a thigh gap but you might Have a big bum before I've not got a Thigh gap that you want it so you keep Working you keep trying you think I'm Not losing enough weight I'm not doing

It right but actually those people that You're looking at are either posing in a Very unnatural way or they've had Surgery or they're editing their Pictures so we're now exposed to this Kind of and you know even like the Kardashians lead a lot of this body uh Body image Stuff in my opinion And in everyone else's opinion now now They're going very skinny and that's Really hard because people women have Maybe eaten a bit extra to try and bulk Up or maybe they've had this surgery to Make their bum bigger and other Kardashians are getting really skinny And they're like oh my God what am I Going to do my bum implants taken out How am I supposed to manage this right So social media has caused this absolute Chaos with body image and with dark Culture and just like It's some interesting examples of this Like nobody in the world told like from A nutrition professional perspective Told people to start drinking plant milk That was almost entirely led by like a Social media campaign of people saying Shouldn't be drinking Dairy and then Plant milk has come along and taken up That space Nobody in a nutrition professional Perspective has said that's better for You in any capacity than drinking dairy

Milk because it's not fundamentally Dairy's got loads of really important Nutrients in they're harder to find That's where on your diet But somebody came along and I could name Her but you might want to edit out Deliciously Ella came along and said Everyone should be plant-based and not Drink Dairy and now there's this huge Market for plant-based milks right at That time so we're talking about this Kind of 11 year ago no nutrition Qualifications by the way 11 years ago Along comes Joe Wicks and tells everyone To eat coconut oil coconut oil is full Of saturated fat and we worked so hard As nutrition professionals to get people Away from saturated fat and have more Olive oil and now suddenly everyone's Eating loads of coconut oil because Joe Wicks told them to again no nutritional Qualifications absolutely no health Benefits to eating coconut oil but these Nutrition Trends seep into society from Influences and from social media Platforms and it causes physical harm so If we get a wave and you know lots of People would say it's inevitable that we Have a wave of young women and men who Have osteoporosis in their 40s because They never gain the bone density that You get from having dairy in your diet Consistently up until the age of 30. Is delicious it's deliciously Ella or

Other influences culpable for that are They responsible I think so but no one's gonna they're Not they've not got any governing body That says that they should be equally if We did Have a big spike in heart attacks from People having loads of coconut oil is Joe Wicks responsible maybe but he's not Culpable because he's not there's not Many credentials in the area there's no One governing what he's saying there's Like social media has become a public Health platform But nobody is managing it nobody's Protecting it no one's making sure it's Okay skinny teas giving people diarrhea Teaching people purging behaviors like It's a mess and it's so hard to break Through that stuff and I think Dietitians have such an important voice There but it's really hard to break Through and that is where now diet Culture is like on acid and it's so Dangerous for people Yeah I did I've done two dexa scans in the Last uh sort of 12 months first I'll say In June then was in December and the one In June showed me that I was like 24 Body fat or something which was a real Shock to my system because I just kind Of assumed I was like 17 18 or something Just based on how I think I look

Um and the guy who did the scan uh was Like yeah you know in terms of in terms Of your upper body your sort of median For people the sorts of people that have Dexa scans are generally more Health Consciously type people for your lower Body you're in the 15th percentile so do More squats kind of thing Um but also I had tons of visceral Adipose tissue it was like 70 something And then I had another scan six months Later uh I'd lost 3kg annoyingly like 60 Of it was muscle rather than fat Um and the guy was like yes because not Enough protein and not enough actually Going to the gym which is what maintains Muscle when you when you've lost weight The visceral adipose tissue went down to Sort of the 50s from the 70s which was Good Um body fat was still like 23 percent Um and so I was thinking Part of me was thinking I want to get Shredded Um just for the aesthetic stuff But then another part of me well when I When I spoke to this other health coach He was like well it's not it's not Really about the six-pack abs but Actually we do want to get this visceral Adipose tissue down and especially with My background South Asian basically Apparently a lot of fat congregates Around our beddies

Um and visceral adipose tissue equals Bad therefore I should try and reduce my Overall body fat because that gets rid Of some of the visceral adipose tissue To what extent is this reasonable Strategy or what have I gotten wrong in This analysis no no I mean all of what You've said is true so visceral fat Which is the fat that collects around Your organs is really not good for our General Health it's very metabolically Active and interact with our body it Creates inflammation in the body which We know to be really negative for us so Visceral fact something we need to Control how much visceral fat you have Is inevitably going to be linked to your Genetics so you will always have more Than perhaps so when we do these studies The dexa studies to show what's average Are mainly done on white people and so We don't necessarily have a good gauge Of what might that might look like in South Asian people for example what Might be normal so actually if you did Compare that and BMI is the same Actually so we give a lower BMI and Waist hit ratio for South Asian people Now than we would for white people Because South Asian people carry more Weight centrally in that so you might be Lighter and that's more dangerous so Actually if we looked at studies that Include people from all different

Backgrounds there might be a slightly Different ratio for you of what would be Normal right because of your background So that's something to think about I Don't believe that data exists but I Could be wrong Um so it's something to do with thinking Practically about what's right for you And whether you can physically do that But focusing on something like visual Facts is a useful measure of thinking Okay how am I gonna improve and impact My long-term Health unfortunately most People are only interested in athletics To the detriment of all the other things And then that can end up with all kinds Of different problems so you could get Really really fixated on that number and Actually it's not moving as fast as you Want it to and that can be really Difficult for you because you end up in A bit of a pit of going to the gym twice A day and hardly eating anything or just Eating protein and go down this spiral Whereas actually just having a gauge on It having an eye on it and making sure It's not becoming out of control and in A really unhealthy level is probably the Most important thing to think about How do you feel about the visible ABS Culture I mean I think it's Unfortunately I think it's much more Dangerous for women than it is for men So

That's not fair I think that There's this culture now for men and I Really feel sad that women haven't Brought men with them on the positive Body positivity Journey because I think That the Like Diet culture journey is really just In its infancy for men really but what I Notice is if you watch Netflix for Example You'll see men who don't apparently go You might follow this man all through His day and he's doing all sorts of Different things but not once has he Gone to the gym but when he takes a Shirt off in the evening he's got this Absolutely ripped six-pack so young men Are like oh he's not really going to gym But somehow he looked like every man has This under their even lawyers who are Clearly working like 24 hours a day Seem to have this amazing six-pack how Is that possible how do I get that I Should have that too and of course That's not how it is right that's just Not what the average man looks like but That's what men are now expected to kind Of try and emulate or feel that they're Expected to try and emulate and you know The lower your body fat percentage goes The lower your testosterone gets the More higher risk you have injury and Generally your energy is going to be Crap if you speak to people who are men

Who've been on the front covers of like Men's Health and stuff like that and you Ask them how they were feeling at the Time that they shredded down for that Photo shoot they'll tell you that they Felt horrendous that they were depressed If I awful that eating out in ages Haven't eaten with their wife for ages Haven't seen their kids for ages they're Just in the gym all the time you know That and they've not drunk enough water They've like fasted from water to try And get really shredded but that's kind Of the you know the Panacea that's what People are aiming for right that's what People think they need to be looking Like so that's dangerous and toxic in And of itself when we think of women Actually having visible abs for most Women means getting your body fat Percentage down to something that we Relatively similar to men so something Below like 19 let's say but in order for A woman most women this is on average Looking at the data most women need a Body fat percentage of at least 22 to 25 To have a regular menstrual cycle so Women are starving themselves down to Body fat percentage of somewhere between 17 and 19 to get visible ABS meaning That their menstrual cycle has probably Stopped on average we look at it and of Course some women carry a lot more Weight on the bottom and not so much in

The middle so they might have leaner Abdomens naturally But on average when we look at the data Most women with a six-pack probably Won't be menstruating and of course not Having a period is associated with all Kinds of really negative Health outcomes Not least of all uh you know bone Density problems and all sorts of things That are actually long-term health Things that can cause all kinds of harm But one of the questions that people Love to ask I think in media type stuff I've seen and so I'm going to ask it to You with that caveat with with the Apology but uh is Can you be overweight and healthy yeah For sure yeah yeah so some people just Are naturally supposed to be heavier Than what the BMI tells us to be and in My practice I would say that those are The people who were noticed that they Were heavier as children and maybe they Carry and weight on their lower body or On their arms maybe they're women who've Got quite big breasts that kind of stuff They generally just are naturally Heavier maybe their mum's also a bit Heavier and or their grandma and their Grandma was a bit heavier that kind of Genetic predisposition to carrying a bit More weight but what I'm talking about Is women who eat really well who look After their bodies who exercise who love

Exercise we're doing really good stuff And who look after their mental health And they're not eating compulsively they Don't feel out of control with their Relationship with food they're eating Really healthily but ultimately they are Still heavier than what their doctor Might like them to be right and those Are healthy people those are overweight But healthy people and what we have is This interesting data around people who Are thin on the inside but fat on the Outside tofi and foti people who are fat On the outside but thin on the inside What does that mean so then you could be Thin the outside but fat on the inside Like with this visceral fat we're Talking yeah this could be a naturally Very thin person but maybe you're Smoking maybe you're drinking too much Maybe you you know don't eat well you Don't look after that you never exercise So you might look thin so your doctor Goes sure you can have IVF you can have All this treatment you can do these Things But you actually a very very unhealthy Person and just some small Lifestyle Changes might sort everything out for You but you could be an overweight Person overweight in inverted commas who Looks after their body everything Beautifully doesn't have hardly any Visceral fat but they are naturally a

Heavier set person and they're denied Treatment for things like infertility And that kind of stuff because their BMI Isn't what their GP wants it to be so It's a big kettlefish and it's very Difficult but yes you can absolutely be Heavier than Though society would like you to be and Be a very healthy person I've I've heard on a couple of Usually Um kind of men Centric podcasts Um this idea of and usually right wingy Type podcasts that oh my God Work Culture has gone mad you look at that Plus size model on that on that Instagram page look at that plus size Model on that magazine cover yes we get That like body shaming bad yes we get That like super super skinny also bad But like come on surely you're Encouraging women to become fat that's True that kind of narrative I mean when We think about Um my mum's generation again where they Only saw very very skinny women and Certainly to the early stages of social Media where we only saw a very Particular shape and size of women and We still see that on TV on average and Everything else when we see that we Don't see any other body shapes and Sizes represented it means that the Women who can never be that shape and

Size despite however much exercise and Healthy eating whatever else they do They just feel completely unrepresented And those people who you know you might Follow the latest diet Trends every new One that comes out but it's not working For you because you're just never Supposed to be that shape and size it's Not healthy for you it's impossible for You to maintain get there or maintain it So you read the development eating Disorder or you develop what we call Disordered eating where you're feeling Terrible about your body shape and size All the time you're bouncing from you Know either completely restricting or Overeating all the time and struggling To maintain your a healthy relationship With food you're constantly thinking About food it's the only thing you're Ever thinking about you're hating your Body and thinking about food all the Time occupying all of your brain space Imagine what you could do with all that Rain space but it stopped Um when we don't have any representation That's the two camps that people fall Into so they either stay super super Skinny or they really struggle with Disordered eating relationship with food In their body what we need is this Representation And of course we don't need any Glorification of poor health but what I

See from these girls that are you know These plus size models who are on the Cover of Cosmopolitan if you look on Their Instagram they're skipping they're Doing yoga they're doing amazing things They're doing incredible stuff they're Not generally the the people who are Shown are not the people who are on YouTube Eating excessively and everything else Right those are that's a really Niche Kind of fetishy category actually but I Think that these heavier women who are Naturally heavier on our plus size Models are being grouped in with them And that's certainly not how it is in Reality all right so we took a little Bit of a tea break I did the thing that You that you suggested while I well While I was waiting for the tea to steep Or Brew or whatever the hell that's Called I pulled myself a glass of water And I drank it perfect and that's such An easy thing it's so nice when you can Like attach a habit to something else Definitely I think that's where Dietitians come in really handy because We understand like If you see a different sort of nutrition Professional sometimes you're given this Like idealized Diet of the perfect Things you're eating and drinking and It's just completely unrealistic whereas Because we work in hospitals where

People who just don't have access to Funds and stuff like that for the Majority of our career you kind of Understand what people actually eat like And how they really behave and you can Really help people to kind of change Those behaviors rather than just going Here's your diet plan off you go yeah Um uh on on that note are there any Other sort of quick easy tips that Someone can can take away that will just Level up their life I think like Snacking on nuts and seeds and stuff Like that is just so helpful just adding Add things in put like a jar like if You're someone who eats in the car and You notice it on heat unhealthy things In the car put like a jar of Trail Mix In the car go to a health food store or Whatever you can afford to you can go to Um poundland and get loads of different Nuts and seeds and stuff and mix them up In a big jar and put that in your car And it'll help you to kind of keep full For ages and have nice things to snack On interesting so I've always thought Like I really like nuts but then I think All nuts high calorie bad so Interestingly there's great data to show That the less you chew nuts the less Nutrition like the less fat you absorb From them so don't choke but if you Follow them yeah you just can't act They're very difficult to digest in a

Really positive way so ultimately the if You eat nuts you just don't you probably Absorb 50 of the fat from the nuts that You actually eat because most of us Aren't chewing it down if you have Peanut butter for example then you end Up absorbing much more of the fat Because obviously it's processed and you Can eat it better yeah because like when I'm driving especially I'll I'll stop at A Services charge the car or whatever And then I'll be like oh I really want To eat something yeah and I'll sometimes Do fall to like Smarties but like I Think replacing that with like just a Nut mix option yeah perfect yeah and Even put some like put a few chocolate Raisins in there why not treat yourself You know make it nice okay so the water Thing that I mean not so great for your bike buying But they're also great for keep like General healthy fats and they're also Positive keeping you full and all that Kind of stuff so really good for satiety I think it is a little bit about Counting your fruits and veg so just Going all right how many plants have I Got in this meal how many plants I've Got in that meal and one of the things That I do habitually is just as I said Before just zoom out on my diet a little Bit and go okay I haven't really had any Fish this week I'm in a restaurant

Trying to make a decision have I eaten Chicken this week have I eaten fish have I eaten meat what have I had for me I'm Also thinking where am I my menstrual Cycle do I need some red meat do I need A bit more iron that kind of stuff it's Just sort of trying to think a little Bit more strategically about your diet Without having really strict rules Because that's important and helps you With your general mental health and Well-being nice I like that yeah I find Often when I go to a restaurant I'm Paralyzed by choice but if I zoom out And think huh I've only had one person To fish this week great that makes sense That's easy exactly fantastic Um you looked up a few studies while we Were taking taking a break let's pretend I just knew them off the top of my head Though yeah nice I am joking Yeah so um what are some fun studies That I I love hearing about studies yeah So there's some great research on Probiotics and both the gut brain axis So how when we're stressed we have these Gut symptoms and how probiotics can help To control those gut symptoms so one in Particular so there's 55 healthy Volunteers given probiotic another group Are given a placebo so we can measure The difference and once you have the Probiotic have a significant reduction Of psychological stress significant

Reduction in cortisol so these like Chemical parameters of Stress and Anxiety that we can measure so it's not Just how people say they're feeling it's These objective measures so I'm talking About cerebiome which is these two Combination of two particular probiotic Bacteria which we have in the smart Probiotic shown to significantly reduce Cortisol in people who are taking it in Comparison to Placebo magic people don't Believe this stuff until they see some Of this research right it's so important To look at it and they also see a Decrease in depression scores so People's perceived how they're feeling Mood scores that kind of stuff which is Pretty magic I think one of the really Important things that we often miss when We're thinking about productivity and Focus and concentration is that anxiety Is like the anti-focus concentration Hormone right when you're anxious you Generally procrastinate you don't do Anything you get really fidgety so you Can't concentrate on anything at all so Really with a lens of thinking about why We struggle with focus on concentration We've got to think about anxiety so if We can reduce anxiety and reduce Cortisol we're going to be in a much Better Flow State we're going to be able To focus much better so if we're Focusing our our thoughts about this on

Reducing of cortisol we can think that Then the counteraction of that will be That you'll be able to concentrate and Focus much better We've also done some great words there's Great research on depressed patients Given probiotics and seeing Improvement In anxiety Sleep Quality stress and that In that study in particular they were Given the probiotic for eight weeks and Those results lasted for eight weeks Longer once they stopped taking the Probiotic which is pretty magic so You've got bacteria adapt and change Over time and then they can become a Less stressed microbiome so your Ecosystem and your colon sort of evolves With you so it evolves depending on what You feed it and it evolves depending on What external facts is going on so if There is a lot of stress you become a More stressed ecosystem into including Your colon and that then helps to Release more cortisol makes you a more Stressed person so it's this feedback Loop between your gut and your Environment whereas if we can break that Feedback loop by introducing some Probiotic bacteria that help to control Stress it can help to have long lasting Effects in your colon which is Magic and Then we've got another great study with 75 healthy volunteers given Placebo or Probiotics and again really significant

Reduction in stress-induced GI symptoms So that diarrhea that you get when You're feeling anxious and stressed we Can see that reduce just with taking These two particular strains of Probiotics which is pretty magic that's Really cool Sick I'm gonna take this more more Regularly now yeah every day please cut That out because One thing that is common for people to Hear if they go to a doctor about Something any kind of bowel symptoms is Oh you've got a bit of IBS yeah sure What does a bit of IBS mean nothing Really I think it's really important That everyone knows that if a doctor is Trying to give you a diagnosis of IBS Diagnosis of IBS is a diagnosis of Elimination so your job as a doctor is To eliminate all the other things that It could be before you say it's IBS so That means that at the very least Someone should be having a blood test to Rule out any sort of inflammatory Condition and they should be having a Stool test again to look at inflammation In the stool but also to look for any Blood in the stool which is associated With bowel Cancers and unfortunately Bowel cancer is affecting more and more Young people we also with women we would Think about things like endometriosis And other gynecological problems that

Could cause disruption to digestion but Also bloating and that kind of stuff uh You know cervical cancers can lead to Bloating those sorts of things so it's So so important that your doctor does That process of elimination before they Give you that diagnosis of IBS and I Think it can be quite empowering for People to know that actually the nice Guidelines so that the guidelines that Tell doctors what to do that is in there They have to do this process of Elimination before they say it's just a Bit of IBS because there is a risk that You'll miss other much more serious Things and a lot of my patients will Have seen their doctor multiple times Before they see me and then they come And they say my doctor said I've got IBS And then I say actually I just think we Need to do a few more tests I don't Think this has been ruled out and they End up having something more serious and That's you know it could have been Diagnosed years ago Hmm what can we learn about gut from poo Testing and blood testing so stool Testing at your GP so if someone comes To see me and I think I think we need Some more stool tests the sorts of stool Tests I might ask for would be things Like Um a sort of fecal cow protectant so it Measures how much inflammation is in

Your poo and that tells us if there's Actual inflammation in your bowel Someone who has IBS should never have Inflammation in their bowel it's just Not part of the IBS picture but people Have inflammatory bowel disease for Example May well have info what will Have inflammation in their bowel itself When they're in have active disease Um we can also look for things like Parasites so sometimes people come and They've got like IBS that developed when They went on holiday somewhere and Actually they've got some residual Giardia or another parasite that they Picked up that kind of thing we can also Look for things like H pylori which is a Particular type of bug that lives in Your stomach or lining and that can Cause reflux and those kinds of things And it's again a simple stool test that Can be done for that so there are lots Of medical level store tests we can do We can check your pancreatic function With your stool test that kind of thing But the sort of stool tests that people Are really interested in now are these Microbiome tests that you can have done So these are available commercially and They are interesting so in the last week I've been analyzing a load of stool Tests as part of the heights probiotic Trial and we're looking at people's Stall tests but there's real limitations

To them so we've got really interesting Raw data and what we need to do with That data is pair up with what people Are eating what their lifestyle is like Try to use the clues from their clinical Conversation with them to then look at Their stool tests and try and match up Why this particular thing is different For them so for example you could look And you could say this person's got more Higher levels of some pathogenic Bacteria and you need to say did you Have food poisoning anytime in the last Kind of few years or so and then we can Go okay that's probably why but it might Also just be a bit High because their Levels of good bacteria are a bit too Low and we need to balance it all out It's all about ratios and I guess the Main thing to take from this is that if You're going to do it on your own the Chances are you're going to end up with A load of information that you don't Know what to do with and it can be Potentially really frightening and if You have existing gastrointestinal Problems they're more anxious and Worried you are the worse your problems Are going to be right so it's not Necessarily helpful to do it if you are Someone who is feeling anxious and you Think that might be contributing to your Gut symptoms ultimately there's really No point in doing it if you're someone

Who lives with any kind of gut condition Because we just don't have data for what Is normal for someone who has IBS for Example so we've got loads of data for What's normal in healthy people or What's average and healthy people but we Don't have data on people who've got IBS IBD that kind of stuff so it's just not A good idea to do if you've got any kind Of gut symptoms and actually if you come And see someone like myself or someone From my team we can based on your Symptoms and what's going on for you Have a really good guess at what's going On in bacteria wise right so if you say To me I passing really fast man and gas I'll say what does it smell like and They might say it smells very eggy and I Think they've got too many of the ones That produce too much sulfur let's work On managing those and if you say I've Got really bad bloating I'll say oh You've probably just got really loads of Rapid fermenting bacteria in there and We can try and modulate the proportions Of those so that things get a bit more Comfortable so it's you really don't Need to have one ever but sort of Academically speaking they're always Quite fascinating So I was in Miami a couple days ago and Everyone there seemed to have some kind Of longevity regimen with their nads and Nmns and all their stacks and all this

Kind of stuff and one thing that they'll Sort of use cold showers ice plungers Hyperbaric chambers even some of them One thing that they all seem to have Done was some kind I think this sort of Microbiome stool testing because they Were like oh I did my stool test and it Told me that actually for me avocados Are really bad and for my May avocados Are good like what I and I was a bit Like what how does that work what's Going on there I think that what they Are referring to is Um some personalized nutrition program That does stall testing but also does Blood testing and genetic testing yeah Yeah so they're looking at that full Parameters of things and whilst that's Interesting ultimately the the vast Majority of the advice both on Microbiome testing but also on genetic Testing everything else it's going to be Roughly the same right roughly the same Which means that you you've got a Slightly higher propensity to me for Cardiovascular disease for example and I Have a slightly higher propensity for Diabetes but the doctor advice for those Two things is going to be the same eat Loads of plants have some oily fish be Careful with high fat foods that kind of Stuff yeah so the dietary advice is Going to be roughly the same regardless Of what's going on and some people might

Find out from that kind of stuff that They don't handle fats very well so they Might find out that actually for their Mother card too much avocado isn't a Good thing but most people aren't out There smashing so much avocado that's Going to have a negative impact on their Health right so ultimately those tests Are interesting and some people find Them useful but in in practice for most People it creates this kind of real Anxiety and that's where people can end Up booing bananas in a lecture theater Right that's where people get too Fixated on it and worried about things That actually in the grand scheme of Things are not something you need to be Worrying about These are generally just sorry to Interpret you these are generally people With far too much time on their hands to Think about their longevity and they're Not people who are living in the real World but their influence is huge on all Of us right because they are the sort of Top tier in terms of financials and so We kind of emulate them and we think That that's part of what got them to Where they are but actually it's the Years of them grafting and eating Deliveroo every night that got them to Where they are it's not them focusing on Hyperbaric chambers and all that kind of Stuff yeah these guys all have way too

Much money way too much money on way too Much time in the house Um I was like having a chat with my Girlfriend last night and we were we Were talking about sauna use because There's all this stuff around like oh Heat shock proteins and heat shock Therapy and all that all that kind of Stuff and I was thinking yeah you know You know they say like on on Hebrew and Lab he says four times a day and we Couldn't quite remember like whether it Was 13 minutes or 14 minutes and 15 Minutes and she made a very good point She was like well if you don't go to the Sauna at all it does not matter at all Like whether whether you're whether You're 55 minutes 58 minutes just trying To like get to the store at least once a Week first and then once you're at the Point where you're going four times a Week then worry about the optimization Yeah sure I mean also just remember that Like 99 of the population don't have Access to a sauna so and they're kind of Okay yeah Um but I think it illustrates that thing Which like I I definitely have a Propensity for this where If I don't have 100 of the information I'm gonna go zero percent of the way Sure sure and actually I should just go 80 of the way and then worry about Optimizing and I think that's just

Generally really good advice isn't it It's like those small steps that you Take and the things that last and that Are easy and if you try and sort of have It stack that makes a massive difference Rather than trying to overhaul Everything and get to details oriented Nice Um okay loads of somewhat unrelated Things which are all I mean obviously Related to the gut that I want to ask You about so I'm just going to shoot 100 Questions your way uh what's the deal With protein shakes uh depends on how You're taking them or using them for but Most people don't need them so most People get plenty of protein in their Diet if you're someone who is trying to Build muscle rapidly and you're busy and It's difficult to get enough kind of Meals in the day then fair enough you Could use a protein shake but it's Really important to look for one that Doesn't have emulsifiers and colorings And all this stuff in it preservatives Because you're just causing yourself More problems for later they've got These Health Halo that we talked about That people think it's really healthy Because it's protein shaped when Actually it's probably like birthday Cake flavored and it's got loads of Different things in it that you don't Want in your body so I generally

Recommend to people to either use a whey Protein isolate or a pea protein isolate If they're vegan and then you can blend That up with like some berries and maybe Some kefir or some berries and some like Oats for example and you can make Yourself like a really healthy really Good tasting protein shake that's still Got the same protein structures in it The thing that you really need for Muscle building but it's not going to Have any lactose in it it's not going to Have any other additives in it and the Things you're trying to avoid nice any Particular brands that you recommend Depends on how bougie people are so Um the organic protein company have a Really great whey protein isolate with Literally nothing else in it and so no Emulsifies or anything else so that's a Really good choice nice But it's expensive Okay here's another thing I've heard uh Blending veg is bad because you lose a Lot of the benefits of veg once it's in A blender sure so when we uh blend Anything it's kind of a step towards Processing it right but so is cooking And so is other things that we do that Are fine for us and we do lose some of The fiber structure but we maintain all The nutrients so if you're talking about Kind of uh putting it in a blender and You have all of it it's slightly

Different so if you're juicing something You lose all the fiber if you're juicing Something but if you're just blending it You maintain a lot of the the foods that Your gut bacteria want so you're still Getting loads of good stuff from that And there's no harm in doing it the harm Will not harm but the problem that People run into is a bit like when we're Talking about oranges and juicing you Can end up having way more fruit than You would normally have or be able to Physically eat in a sitting but blend it Up you can just drink it super easily so I usually recommend people do is add Some like spinach in there add some kale In there bulk it out with some veggies And balance that out with some fruit so That it's kind of a bit more of a Balance between fruits and vegetables All right I'm gonna try and find a Decent recipe for this stuff so like I Can put some oats put some organic Whatever protein powder some frozen Berries some frozen veg yeah stick some Seeds in some peanut likes Mixed Nut Butter would be great in there yes Um on the note of juices and blending And stuff what's the deal with juice Cleanses and like celery juice and like This kind of stuff that people do I mean It's an absolutely terrible idea all of It so I've got a very good friend Dr Rachel Kent who is um she's an amazing

Researcher at King's College and she her Sort of Journey she she researches the Impact of Health Tech on our general Well-being and and lives and she started That journey into doing that because she Did a juice cleanse she was just doing It for General Health she didn't lose Weight but she just read that juicing Was a really good idea she cut Everything out she's doing like a bit of A detox type thing in inverted commas And end up in hospital with terrible Kidney stones it was an intensive care With sepsis and everything because she'd Followed this guy's juicing advice that She's seen online and realized that this Was a disaster and now she does amazing Research into the impact of like calorie Tracking and that kind of stuff on your General Life uh so juice cleansers are Dangerous and worrying and something That we definitely shouldn't be doing Anything that kind of uh involves Let's say the word detoxing it's just Nonsense so if you do something like a Juice cleanse you're actually depriving Your body of loads of really really Important nutrients meaning it's got to Work much much harder and in that Process of your body working much harder It's releasing more things that we might Consider to be toxic like oxidative Stress and that kind of stuff because You're just not allowing your body to

Work in its normal way you're making Your liver work really hard to make your Kidneys work really hard and that means That you're producing more stress in Your body which is actually physically Harmful to you so I don't have a problem With people having a juice as part of Their you know adding a few more Vitamins into their diet and stuff like That fine but if you're doing like a Juice cleanse or detox really bad news Terrible Health consequences for lots of People and absolutely no health benefits Nice um there seems to be a lot of Advice on a tick tock these days about The gut gut talk what's your what's your View on gustock I mean I've not seen any Good advice on gut talk apart from what Me and the girls from the TV show have Been trying to produce there's some Really terrible stuff on there including You know I think they call it like a Cheer shower internal shower that kind Of stuff where people are trying to Flush themselves out of things and it's A terrible breeding ground for you know A bit like Instagram is a terrible Breeding ground for terrible advice that Can cause all kinds of trouble What's the what's going on with colonic Cleanses and colonic irrigation as like A health fat yeah like a really bad idea So if we take colonic irrigation as an Example most people are going for

Colonic irrigation will be going because They have some kind of digestive problem That they're worried about so it might Be that they're just feeling a bit Bloated or it might be that they've got A bit of diarrhea or constipation so They're going to a beauty salon Effectively to have colonic irrigation And what happens in that is they pass a Tube up your bottom and then introduce a Lot of water into the bowel and that Essentially kind of flushes out all of The whatever's in your colon your Colon's a meter and a half long right It's a big organ and so actually it's Got a lot of stuff in there that's Supposed to be in there stuff that's Feeding your microbiome bits of it that Actually oh your microbiome that you Want to keep in there they're really Important Um but also if you've got any gut Symptoms and then you fill your colon With loads of water and put it under Pressure you're at risk of perforation Right because the person who's a beauty Person who does your colonic irrigation Doesn't know doesn't have these skills To find out whether actually you've got A bowel cancer or you've got something Structurally wrong with your bowel that Is causing those symptoms maybe your GP Doesn't even have the skills to do that You might have diverticular disease

Where the structure is affected and There's narrowings and there's like bits Of the bowel wall that are really Vulnerable introduce a load of water Into that environment put it under Pressure perforations can happen really Easily there's absolutely no health Benefits to colonic irrigation but loads Of reasons that everybody should Absolutely avoid it fantastic Um a lot of people seem to be going on Gluten-free diets these days what's the Deal with collision-free diets yeah Super trendy right so about one percent Of the UK population has celiac disease So that's where gluten is physically Toxic to your bowels it causes physical Damage to the lining of the ball and a Bowel wall and that's a an autoimmune Condition so it generally inherited Autoimmune condition so in their case Gluten should absolutely be avoided at All costs including like a tiny crumb of Gluten that could be on a chopping board Or in the same fryer so you know frying Chips and they've got had batter in There then they can't have chips that Are fried in the same thing so those People have to be super super careful With gluten the rate of celiac disease Hasn't increased over the last few years At all but the number of people on a Gluten-free diet has increased Exponentially thanks to people like

Gwyneth Paltrow and other people who are Promoting gluten-free diets as some sort Of Health elixir of course in reality That's just a low carb diet through the Back wall back door right so we're like I've lost loads of weight and a Gluten-free nuts just because you're not Eating carbs anymore that's the reason You've lost weight it's not good for you It's not helping you gluten is this tiny Little protein molecule that never did Anyone any harm apart from this one Percent of the population but it's been Completely demonized by the kind of Wellness Community And this sort of has pros and cons for The Celiac Community because now Everywhere you go you can get really Good Celiac products and gluten-free Products right which is great when I First started working as a dietitian Gluten-free bread was horrendous and you Couldn't buy a gluten-free cake anywhere And now everywhere you go has Gluten-free options but it's also made Shop owners so restaurants that kind of Thing less worried about it so people Think you're just on a gluten-free diet Because you're being fussy as opposed to Having a true allergy so they're not Necessarily handling things carefully or Doing it because it's someone who's got Sealer disease they're doing it because It's someone that they think is just on

A fad diet which causes all kinds of Trouble for people who do live for see Lexy so they're pros and cons to that we See that in other allergies as well so Like there's a couple of incidents of Like vegan food trucks giving people Dairy with dairy allergies anaphylaxis Because they're just not being that Careful because they're just being They're trying to be vegan but they're Not careful with contamination so people Have anaphylactic dairy allergy think It's fighting but actually It's not so there's all kinds of trouble With that but ultimately again no Benefits to cutting out gluten loads of Downsides including things like effect And quality of life so cutting out Gluten is not a good idea for anyone and Not necessary unless you have celiac Disease or some people with IBS do Struggle with tolerating gluten but it's Usually not just gluten so what I find Is people have cut out gluten they're Like I felt a bit better but it wasn't All together better and that's because There's lots of other things that impact Symptoms and IBS that we can do as a Clinical treatment diet so would you Suggest like would it be worth Random person just cutting out gluten For a week and seeing seeing what Happens or is that like too much of a n Equals one bro signs yeah I mean not

Unless they have any symptoms not unless They like put massively suspect that Gluten is causing the problems and again You know if you have some gut symptoms And you cut out gluten you might feel a Bit better and then you might start to Feel worse again but the chances are It's not because it was the gluten in The first place it's because you change Your diet completely so people might cut Out gluten and then they don't eat the Burger and they don't eat the pizza and They're getting the other things so they Feel better but actually it's not Because they cut out gluten it's because They're not eating processed food in the Same way We talked to live we we touched a little Bit earlier on Dairy and kind of dairy Is bad and replacing milk with oat milk Almond milk soy milk All That Jazz Um What I guess what's the health side of Things and I guess some people having a Sort of an aversion to Dairy for the Kind of animal cruelty side of things so How do you balance kind of these things Yeah I think it's really important to Recognize there are lots of different Reasons for coming off Dairy for being a Vegan whatever it might be and if those Are ethical or they are environmental or They are for uh reasons of religion for Example then obviously that's absolutely

The right thing for you to do and I Would never want anyone to listen to This and think that I'm saying that you Have to drink milk if it's really in Like in congress with your ethical Beliefs or your religious beliefs for That matter because obviously that would Make you feel really unhappy and Uncomfortable and that's not the right Thing for anyone to do but if you're Doing it for health reasons there's Absolutely no data to show that plant Milks are better for you as a human than Dairy milk and in fact all the data that We have today shows that people who Don't consume Dairy have much poorer Bone health so people who are vegans Have a much higher instance of bone Fracture than people who are not vegans We have this really really interesting Period in our life so up until the age Of 30 we can continue to mineralize our Bones so all the minerals we take in in Our diet can be soaked into our bones up Until the age of 30 we call that our Peak bone density after the age of 30 It's basically downhill from there and Your bones then acts as like a mineral Store for your body for the rest of your Life so within our bodies we always have To maintain a really careful band of how Much calcium and how much magnesium and How much other minerals we have in our Body because they're essential for the

Contraction of our heart and the Movement of our lungs and everything Else so blood minerals will always be The same and our body will either take Those minerals from the foods that we're Eating or it'll Leach them from our Bones in order to make sure we maintain That really tight level of mineral Control in our bloodstream right so you Could spend all of your early 20s teens Not having enough dairy in your diet Because someone on the internet told you To not to have it because it's not good For you or because of something you've Seen and that makes you feel Uncomfortable but you never reach your Peak bone mass and then every day after That you're just depleting your stores And so by the time you're 40 your bones Could be really brittle and we see this In children so even if children who have Have to have even children have to have A dairy-free diet because of dairy Allergy they'll never have as strong Bones or be as tall as children who Consume Dairy as they're growing up so It has a direct impact on our bone Health and people say to me well people In China don't eat dairy and they're Fine but they eat like broth with bones In it so they're constantly having Different things in their diet that Contain loads of calcium we're talking About a western diet type population

Where we just don't have other good Sources of Bones of calcium in our diet And the Matrix of minerals in Dairy is Really really important for our bone Health but it's also one of our main Dairies has been historically and still Continues to be one of our main sources Of iodine and iodine has an impact on Your thyroid function and we're seeing Loads and loads of young people coming Through with iodine deficiency and Thyroid problems because they've cut out Dairy and again I'm going to say again The influencers who told you to don't Have any like there's no consequences For them on that it can low ironing can Cause infertility no one's got any like No one can come back on people that told Them to do that so Dairy is a very useful food to consume In your diet and if you have cut it out Because you think it's healthier for you You've been misled if you've cut it out Because you've watched documentaries About hormones and cow's milk as well You've been misled in the UK because They're very different and very careful Farming practices in the UK and compared In comparison to America where those Documentaries are made Um so let's say someone is vegan for Ethical reasons what can they do to Minimize the negative impact of not Having Dairy great question so what

They're willing to be focusing on is Making sure that all of their Plant-based products are well things are Fortified with calcium essentially You'll also need to be taking Supplements so you need to be thinking About iodine supplements you need to Think about B vitamin supplements There's lots of things that you need to Be adding in but Dairy taking out Dairy Dairy's got these nine really important Nutrients that just are harder to find Elsewhere so if you are someone who has Like a family history of osteoporosis For example you might want to think About taking some extra supplements Getting a bone scan regularly just to Make sure you're not doing yourself any Harm there but fortified foods are Important and supplements are important And making sure you're eating lots of Plants that do contain calcium is really Important Uh changing gears a little bit uh why Are some people saying seed oils are Evil Um I don't know I think they've just Made up So there's uh some interesting rhetoric I've not done any reading about this so This is my intake this is my take on it Um there's some interesting rhetoric Around How seed oils can have an impact Like a pro-inflammatory impact on our

Body and as far as I know there's no Convincing data and my my amazing Friends who are incredible researchers In lipids and stuff like that they say It's all nonsense so whatever they say I Go okay they know they know way more About this than I do and they're right So there's no data to suggest that seed Oils are having this kind of impact that People are worried about Um as far as we know to date and none of It's very convincing what we do know is If we heat certain oils they can have a More pro-inflammatory effect in the body And that's why we think about things Like Um being careful with fried food for Example because we know that can be less Positive for us we also think about Like manufactured oils is just not being So good for us so things like a trans Fats they're called so when fats are Changed in structure from their natural Form which might be liquid at room Temperature to being solid at room Temperature they can make like a Margarine that kind of stuff isn't very Good for us our body can't recognize it As being a natural thing so it becomes Less positive for us so there are Certainly things in that world that are True but I think that the seed oils hype Is is not accurate to date nice I'm just Going back to the milk thing uh

Full fat semi-skim skim milk From a obesity perspective there isn't What we see from the data is that people Who consume whole milk generally have a Lower body weight than people who Consume skimmed milk which is really Interesting there's lots of reasons that Could be including the people who drink Skimmed milk are the people who drink it Because they struggle with their body Weight right in the first place so we Don't know for sure but actually it Seems to be that the minerals in Dairy Bind some of the fat and stop it from Being absorbed as effectively so we Maybe don't access all of the fat from Dairy which may also account for like The French paradox stuff where they eat A lot of cheese but actually they don't Necessarily have highlight a lot more They have better cholesterol levels than We do as a population so there's some Interesting stuff in there but in General we do recommend that people Think about having lower fat dairy Products but I don't mean by that to Have like fat free yogurt that's got Loads of sweeteners and other things and Flavorings and stuff like that and I Mean to try and keep things as natural As possible Um We've touched on the topic over calories Quite a lot but we haven't really you

Know what's your what's your own Calories very broad question I mean I Think they've become this really like Hyper fixated thing and actually it's Just a unit of measure right it's just a Unit of energy it's just a physics thing So calories in calories out we talk About a bit it's just a unit of energy How much energy you're burning how much Energy you're taking in I think they've Become this like thing that we hyper Fixate on and it's worth people Remembering that labels for food are Allowed to be up to 20 incorrect so when You're using any kind of tracking app Actually it's going to be at least 20 Either side so where people are going I've got 10 calories left I'm gonna have One more peanut actually that's Completely nonsense right yeah well yeah But some people our numbers people write And that's where they can get fixated on Things and it makes things worse for Them ultimately mental health-wise and Everything else we know like the Almond Story you just cut all the nut story Just can't absorb all of the fat from Nuts so what it says on the label is not Going to be what you absorb from it when We cook celery it's got more calories And we don't cook it all these things Like have an impact on stuff because of How we can access the calories and like Ultimately if we could all go away from

The calories and start thinking about Are we physically hungry degree that Would be the best way to think about Things so if you're physically hungry You should eat to your satiety and then You should stop eating until you feel Physically hungry again right but most Of us are making food decisions based on The fact that we're bored or we're Lonely or we're tired or we're having Like an emotional reaction to something So we want to eat or in a restaurant and It's delicious so we eat way beyond our Fullness all that kind of stuff so the Way that we work in clinic with these Kinds of things is teaching people to Listen to their hunger cues listen to Their body trust their hunger hormones a Little bit more which is difficult work And it takes a long time but counting Calories is counter-intuitive to you Learning to trust your body and having a Healthy relationship with food for the Rest of your life so we never recommend Calorie counting to anybody because it Can have this really undermining impact On your ability to listen to your hunger Hormones and listen to your fullness Hormones and all that kind of stuff So let's say someone does want to lose Weight My And this is this could be totally wrong But I was under the impression that oh

If I'm feeling hungry it means it's Working Sure yeah yeah yeah but I mean feeling Hungry is not a good thing is it because When you're hungry you're also really Stressed and anxious it's like courses I Find myself watching a lot of food Videos yeah when I'm feeling hungry at Night time thinking it's got to be done To get that visceral out of birth tissue Down yeah no you don't have to do that You have to live like that you don't Have to live that way Um you know when you're hungry you're Potentially tapping into your body's fat Stores but also when you're managing Your diet properly and your appetites Regulated properly you'll also be Tapping into your body's fat stores and You can do that in many different ways There's no need for you to be physically Hungry you're going to sleep hungry Means you sleep much less well you feel Hungry all night your body's keeping you Awake because it's saying we need to eat Something so actually it's about trying To manage your appetite better through The day so that you're not feeling Hungry at any point because when we're Hungry and when we're tired when we're Stressed we're much more likely to eat Things that we don't necessarily feel That are in line with our health goals At that time so for example when you're

Stressed or when you're tired your brain Releases much more dopamine in response To eating certain foods than it would if You're not stressed and you're not tired And there's great studies from Kings That show that people who are tired so Sleep deprived so we sleep deprive them In the lab and then we offer them food Freely when you're sleep deprived you Eat on average 400 to 500 calories a day More than when you're not sleep deprived Tiredness lights when you eat something Particularly something's high in fat and Carbohydrates when you're tired the Dopamine receptors in your brain are lit Up so much more because your body's Saying yes more energy we need more Energy to stay awake same with when You're stressed because it's fight or Flight your body's saying yes more Energy you need to run or fight So managing stress managing tiredness All these kinds of things those are the Things to get out the way and if your Diet regime is making you hungry so You're really tired hunger it also goes Through all the anger and cortisol Pathways in my brain so you're more Stressed you're more tired you're more Likely to want to overeat and not Regulate your appetite at all and that's Got loads of detrimental impacts on you To what extent is mindful eating helpful Yes yes helpful super helpful so if you

Think about Um sitting down with a small amount of Food and consuming it mindfully Listening to your body checking in so The way that I might work this in Practice would be I would say you can Have as much of this you're going to Make yourself a meal you can have as Much of it as you want to have but first Of all I'd like you to take away kind of A you know a smallish portion of it take It to sofa eat it properly engage with It try not to have lots of distractions Around you chew it properly take the Time over it and once you've finished it Have a little check-in am I feeling full Do I want more what what do I feel like Right now if you still feel hungry great Have some more but if you don't let's Just pause there go and do something Else distract yourself from the food you Don't need any more food so it's about Kind of tuning in listening chewing Properly all those things are really Important as part of that sweet bit Random but I find that I want to eat Certain things my belly bloats a little Bit it's not to the point of Uncomfortableness everybody just Sometimes I wake up in the morning and I I look down I'm like oh you know Being a fairly flat belly and other Times I wake up in the morning like this Morning and I'm like damn how do I get

So fat overnight yeah what's going on There so different foods for men at Different rates and produce different Type amounts of gas in our colon and When you're colon because it is a meter And a half long it's big organ when it's Full of gas you look bigger then you Might go for a poo and pass some gas and You're kind of back to normal right one Of the things that we see from this kind Of Instagram culture stuff is that People think that these people are Maintaining this very flat first thing In the morning belly all day long when Actually everything that you eat Especially if you're a very slim person Everything you eat is almost visible in Your tummy so you'll be aware of it and You can see it if you carry a very low Body fat percentage so all of the models That are doing the posing are doing it First thing in the morning and they're Probably dehydrated and starved because That's when they look most ripped as it Were Um and actually everything you eat has An impact and you can see it so yeah It's normal normal to have a bit of Bloating and you know if you have a bit Of bloating after eating beans and Lentils and pulses and like garlic and Onion and that kind of stuff that's Completely normal because you've got Bacteria love it and they're fermenting

It there's nothing I can be I can be Like oh I look more bloated today and I Had avocado yesterday therefore avocados Bad for me is is there any kind of Bro Science there that works you can think About that so things that are most Likely to Um to ferment in your gut are these what We call fermentable carbohydrates and The biggest culprits that we see in Clinical practice are onion and garlic Pulses apples and pears and somebody's Kind of quite commonly consumed Foods so If it's something that bothers you or if It's certainly Cooks causing you any Pain if it's something that's bothering You mentally or physically it's worth Going to see a dietitian because we can Tell you exactly what it is it's causing It and you can choose to avoid it on the Days that you don't want to feel bloated But then you can go after don't eat Whatever you like and be okay nice Um to what extent is glucose monitoring For glucose spikes useful great question I mean this is kind of outside of my Area of expertise if I'm honest my Experience of people monitoring their Blood glucose is that they get very Worried about things that are completely Physiologically normal because actually Our blood sugars are supposed to Fluctuate during the day they're Supposed to go up and down your body has

Very good mechanisms of controlling your Blood glucose and if you're worried About an increase in your blood glucose That maintains it within the normal Range you're worrying about something That you should just be really happy That your body's doing that you don't Need to worry about the fact that that's Happening so I think it can it attracts People who are hyper fixating on their Health anyway and it creates additional Anxiety about everything they put in Their mouth so ultimately I think it's Really unhelpful particularly in the Long term might be interesting as a Snapshot for a very short term under Supervision with support but I just Don't think it's something we need to be Encouraging people to do at all so if For example I eat an avocado and it Causes a me more of a glucose Spike than It does my mate does that tell me Anything about like I'm my the the way My body is absorbing avocado is Different and therefore I should avoid Them or anything doesn't mean you should Avoid them no it just means that you Might want to think about combining them With other things that has less of an Impact I mean avocado just so you know Isn't going to spike anyone's blood Sugar but yeah it's just something Banana is a better example right so if You you and your friend both eat banana

And it's like yours more yeah are we Talking about spiking you outside the Normal range in which case is it worth Having a chat with somebody about that Or are we just talking about increasing It slightly in which case it's fine also Really worth remembering that a banana Is not a standard food same as an Avocado like they all are a different Size and shape if you eat a banana when It's more ripe it's got more available Sugar than when it's less ripe and as Long as your blood sugars are staying Rising and falling within the normal Range of what we know to be healthy You've literally got nothing to worry About Do you uh do any research or stuff Around things like the longevity side Like you know take people taking Metformin or statins and stuff even Though they are like in their 20s yeah I Mean there is some stuff around that so When we develop the smart supplement Which is the multivitamin product for Heights we had to unfortunately get a Bit involved in that world it is like an Interesting world I think you know I Know from my medical colleagues that Some cardiologists just start taking Statins to protect themselves from a Very young age even though they haven't Got high cholesterol but there's also Real Statin deniers in the low-carb

Community who are absolute charlatans And are causing all kinds of harm as Well Um so it's a real mixed picture but I Think Metformin is slightly you can have an Impact on your liver and have some more Complicated side effects for some people Some of the time so yeah I just don't Think people need to be taking any Prescription medications unless they're Clinically indicated obviously but there Is interesting discussions around that World and protecting yourself from high Blood like insulin resistance Essentially is what metformin is Protecting you from may have some Benefits but the side effects probably Outweigh it we don't have data on Healthy people taking it and the Potential side effects on that and What's better and what's worse so I Would avoid it cool Um I have a friend who wanted to lose a Load of weight before his wedding day And so he took injections of Semi-glutide or liver gluten or Something like that yeah and he said it Was magical because it made a suppressed His appetite massively made him feel Nauseous every time he ate so he stopped Eating basically yeah and he lost a lot Of weight before his wedding day yeah

Um what what's going on there is it is This some magical weight loss drug that Is not particularly I mean you described It beautifully it makes you feel Terrible the whole time you're taking it And really nauseous and so you don't eat Which then means you can't concentrate Anything you have headaches you feel Awful people passing out all kinds of Stuff uh so like if you want that fine But you don't have to go down that route Right there's so many better healthier Ways of doing it and it's what you'll Probably notice is that your friend puts On all that weight again because as soon As you stop feeling nauseous you're like Oh my God food's my friend again and you Haven't learned anything about actually Looking after your body which is what You know Behavior change is all about Love it Um just a couple more questions and then I'd love to talk about the probiotic and Like the ways you guys made it and all That kind of stuff Um we kind of touched a little bit on Kind of brain function and mood and Concentration and things I wonder if you Could just sort of you know if someone Was was being like okay Sophie how do I How do I change my diet such that it Improves my brain function or makes me Have improves my mood what are like the Top recommendations here yeah great

Question so Um Omega-3s are super super important For our brain structure as we've talked About and they can also help to protect Us from excess inflammation in the brain Which is linked to anxiety and Depression and stuff like that so either Make sure you're having at least two Portions of oily fish a week or take Care Omega-3 supplements B vitamins are Incredibly important for our brain Health they they produce they make Things like serotonin melatonin all of Our they make dopamine Gaba all of these Really important brain chemicals that we Really need all the time so B vitamins Are really essential for brain function And we've got some really interesting Work showing that you can use B vitamins In controlled circumstances in Replacement of ssris so anxiety and Depression treatments and they work in a Very similar way in the right doses at The right moment for the right people so B vitamin is super super important for General brain function and brain health And then we also think about things like Antioxidants and particularly the Anthocyanins from blueberries are Amazing for our brain health so not just Blueberries but anthocyanins come in Like red cabbage other dark purple Vegetables and there's some amazing data Showing that if children are given a

Blueberry smoothie before an exam they Perform better in that exam than the Children who haven't had a blueberry Smoothie and then when we swap them over And the level of the exam stays the same And the first children are given the Blueberry smoothie not going to be with Me second to an R the children who had The blueberry smoothie always perform Better than the children who didn't have The Booboo smoothie so what we think is Happening there is it's getting better Blood to your brain and that is meaning That you can have a better mental Performance in a very like short like Period of time so it's having that Direct impact on your brain health in That moment and so with the smart Probiotic smart supplement we've got B Vitamins we've got other things like Iodine that are missing from people's Diets have a big impact but we've also Got vitamin D which you really need for Your brain health as well I should have Mentioned that but we've got Amigas B Vitamins and anthocyanins as kind of the Core components with the other essential Things around it and I mean I designed This right and then you you do all the Research and you put something together And you think you know I think that's Going to work really well given the Research that we've got but you always Always have this kind of slight

Skepticism and then when the reviews Started coming in for it I was like oh My God it's really working for people And it really works for me as well I Think with my ADHD and stuff those Nutrients are so important to me and it Really helps in terms of brain function For lots of people and The reviews really kind of speak for Themselves on that Can we zoom into Vitamin D what's going On with it sure everyone just so Everyone knows everyone should be taking Vitamin D in the winter months in the Western Hemisphere Northern Hemisphere Sorry because we just don't get enough Sunlight so the darker your skin the Less able you are to synthesize enough Vitamin D from the sunlight so the way That those studies are conducted are That people of all different skin colors Are put in the Spanish sunshine in the Summer for an hour lunchtime and they See who how much vitamin D is increased And they can see that the darker your Skin the longer needs to be in the sun To synthesize the same amount of vitamin D and the light of your skin the less Amount of time you need to be in the sun To synthesize vitamin D I'm a ginger I Synthesize more vitamin D than anyone Else in the world uh superpowers so Vitamin D is really really important for Loads of different things we think of it

More as being like a hormone now rather Than a vitamin so we see it within that Capacity and it helps to protect us from Cancer it helps protect us from it you Know it's really important for our Immune function it's really important For our brain health vitamin D is a Really really essential nutrient for all Of us and it speaks to how our society Has changed now that we work indoors and We stay indoors all day that you know Such a huge percentage of the population Are vitamin D deficient especially at This time of year so Vitamin D Supplements are super super important I Take them all year round I think Everyone else should too but it's the Government recommendations are that Everyone takes them between October and April what other supplements do you take I take Heights basically that's all Ticks the Box Um okay let's talk about how you develop These but before we go there uh why do Why is the word supplement often Associated with the word scam yeah I Mean because so much of it is the Industry is honestly the wild west and So I started working with guys from Heights I think probably about five Years ago when I was still working at Kings and I hadn't really realized what a mess the Industry was as a whole so it's a really

Complicated thing and a difficult thing To make a really good quality supplement Product so most people just don't bother And worryingly anyone could go to a Supplement manufacturer anyone with no Qualifications at all and say I want to Put this much of this thing in a capsule And they can make that and sell it and No one's necessarily checking that and Making sure that it's safe it's the Right quantities it's suitable for Everybody it's like anyone can do it and That's why we see all these influences And stuff like that flogging supplements And all this sort of stuff because they Can just make their own any day that They want to it's a really it's a real Minefield All of the ones that are on the shelves In shops and stuff like that the quality Of them is incredibly variable even the More expensive ones there's some really Like really eye-wateringly expensive Supplements now that I look at the Formulation I think Why have you put those things together They don't work together they're Counteracting each other they're all Trying to do different things and Fighting against each other and that's Because they've not had a dietitian or a Nutritionist their qualified Nutritionist they're formulating for Them and trying to help them to make the

Right decisions about what's going to Work and what's not going to work Always have a problem with the Supplement industry where something is Trying to be right for everybody so it's Like this is like a supplement for men And I'm like well what about is it for a Man who does a lot of exercise or Doesn't do any exercise for a man who Has a sedentary job or an active job is It for a man who is it in his 70s or in His 30s or all different people write me Different things so it's kind of about Tailoring these sorts of things to Specifically what you're looking for But it is a Minefield and there's also A big population level data to suggest That people who take supplements don't Necessarily have better longevity or Live longer or anything like that than People who don't like it we're talking About however A to Z multivitamin but I Think that's largely because lots of People history I mean the quality of Them has been terrible historically but Also people take them as like a They just think that what if I take this I don't have to eat fruits and Vegetables I have to do anything else so I'm ticking the box and actually that's Just not how it really works nice so Let's say I as an influencer decided to Show my own supplement yeah how does how Does one go about making a supplement so

You would go to a supplement Manufacturer and you would say can you I Want to put some stuff in a capsule and Sell it to people and they would go okay What do you want to put in and you might Say well I think maybe a bit of this and A bit of that and they would say all Right well why don't you also put this In and this in because they've got some Of that on the shelves and they go how About this a bit this and a bit of that And then they put a load of like Horrible stuff in there anti-caking Agents and all kinds of other things you Don't really want to be putting in your Body and then your pills made and off You go oh and so if I were to be like Let's let's add a stamp of kind of Credibility on this let's consult a Qualified dietitian and a nutritionist Or if I continue and was like hey Sophie Can you help me make a supplement yeah Would you just be like all right this is The list of ingredients you want to give To the manufacturer so we would go okay Who's it for what's the target group What are we looking for what effect are We trying to have for people what are we What's the outcome that we want people To say or feel what are we trying to aim For who are we trying to sell it to Who's your target market what are they Doing what's their lifestyle like what Foods are they likely to be eating or

Not eating like what does their diet Look like roughly on average so that we Can see what people are eating enough of And what they're not eating enough of so They might need a little bit more of This and a bit less of this and then we Would say okay these are the things that We think are really important and then We go all right we can't fit all of that In so let's adjust what we first will Look at all the research we look at the Papers in terms of how much of a B Vitamin makes an impact on this for Example then we go okay what can we fit In a capsule do you want to be two Capsules or one capsule what size Capsule is right for your Market is it People that are going to complain about It being too big in which case we need To go down and are we gonna have three a Day or two a day what's right for you Right all this stuff to think about how Much can we fit in what's going to go in There what's the price point would you Want to sell it at because some of the Ingredients that I like to use are Really expensive because they work Really well so it's kind of all of these Puzzle pieces that we put in and so that Whole bit of conversation is clearly a Lot longer than you going to manufacture And just saying can you put this in a Capsule please right so there's a lot More to think about if you're making

Things properly and thoughtfully and Trying to have an impact like we've done With Heights so it is a much more Complicated process takes a lot of time But then I come up with a formula which Then goes to the manufacturer for Pricing and kind of whether they can fit It in a capsule some things take up more Space than other things so you're moving Things around a little bit but that's Basically the process of getting it to Manufacture with a nutrition Professional nice and so you've been Helping to well you formulate Heights Heights and also the smart probiotic Yeah how did that process work so Probiotics it turns out really difficult To make so arguably more complicated Than the smart supplement even though The smart supplements look super Complicated so probiotics are fussy so You have to be really careful with the Environment that they're produced in you Have to use it's much better to use what We call proprietary strains so there'll Be a few there's a few really good Probiotic manufacturers across Europe I'm talking about literally maybe five And they have their own proprietary Strains that all have research on them So they'll have done specific research On their specific strains which is Important because all the different Bacteria are genetically slightly

Different so you might grow one in here And it's a bit genetically different to This one but it might have the same name So you want to get it from the people Who've done the actual research on it so That happens then you have to say well Can we put these five different strains From your strain Bank in combination and They might say well no because that one Fights with that one and they don't get On and then they end up killing each Other off and then you say okay well This is how long we want to get so the Sooner you get probiotics people the Better because if it sits on shelves Every day that's on the Shelf it's Losing probiotic count right so some of The ones that you pick up from the back Of a Shelf at a pro at a health food Store they've been sat there for two Years there's not gonna be anything left In there realistically then you have to Think about the capsule so we want to Make sure it's getting to your colon and Not being released in the stomach or in The small bowel because if it gets worse In the stomach too much then the acid Kills off the probiotic bacteria so You've got to try and make sure it gets To the place where it survives and does Its job so it's like a really Complicated process and also things like So with vitamins now I'm like familiar With that and I'll say Okay I want this

Much B vitamin and then I want that much Of a probiotic but they're like it's Really fluffy and it takes up loads of Space and I'm like but I don't Understand why and there's no that's not For me if you can explain to me why I Can't have something I can work around It but it was like with that formula It's like here's what we want and they Come back so I can't do that and I'm Like but why and they can't really Properly explain why because it's just Like a manufacturing thing like it's Like a that one's too fluffy or it Doesn't work with this one or whatever It is I'm it was complicated it took us Two years to make that but I'm super Proud of it and the results have been Amazing and we just as I said just doing The human trials with it now and Listening to everyone's feedback and It's been really positive so what's in This this is like a capsule with like Powder and yeah so seven strains of Probiotic bacteria in there okay yeah so Just like a lot of bacteria yeah so like Loads and loads of bacteria And bacteria looks like powder yeah yeah Really oh yeah so it's freeze-dried uh It's freeze I don't know how to make it Work to be honest so it's basically Loads and loads of probiotic bacteria That are dried and then they are all Coated so micro encapsulated and that

Means that they can survive in your GI Tract as carefully as possible So the capsule is the capsule keeps them Alive but they are also the powder Itself is also micro encapsulated to Help survivability even further oh That's healthy and so what's the benefit Of taking one of these so there's Amazing data on probiotics in terms of So that one in particular the strains we Focused on are gut brain access stuff so Making sure that your gut and your brain Are communicating effectively not over Communicating but also these studies That we talked about about anxiety and Depression and cortisol levels reducing Cortisol levels managing those kinds of Things we've also got some amazing Strains for General gut health in there So you mentioned that you noticed your Poo consistency had changed and was more Consistent when you were taking it and That's feed like feedback that we've had From lots of our early customers is that If they had slightly too loose stalls Before it was firmer and if there's two Stalls were too hard before it's more Loose so it's a better consistency for Them so consistency of stool is there There's lots of stuff around General gut Health but also immunity and Inflammation so we think the Inflammation is really really key to Lots of these conditions that we've

Talked about today so we've kind of Focused really specifically on the Strains that we know to have the effects That they want them to have which is Borne out in kind of all of everything That we do for Heights what you find With other probiotic products Most of them were designed for animals And they've just randomly come across a Formula that they can see has some Benefits in humans But you know probiotic research has Moved on and we can be really specific And targeted about what we're looking For now and I can see a world in the Future where someone goes all right Here's my probiotic for immunity here's My probiotic for my gut brain axis Here's my probiotic for this and they Have a sort of piecing together of the Different probiotic strains that they Want to use rather than this kind of Here's your gut health supplement type Picture Would it be true that in an in an Absolutely Ideal World if someone was Getting all of their like having a super Healthy diet and stuff they wouldn't Need to take any supplements or Probiotics or is there like additional Alpha to be had by actually taking one Of these yeah well so what we know to be True is that if you are able to eat Perfectly every single day all the

Things we've talked about already making Sure the diet's perfectly balanced all The time drinking plenty of water you're Not drinking alcohol you're not drinking Too much tea and coffee caffeine Depletes this blah blah you're not Stressed your life is ideal and you're Super Zen uh then probably you don't Need a supplement right but the reality Is most of us are rushing around we're Eating meal to meal we're not thinking Too much about it we don't want to think Too much about it we are eating Croissants for breakfast instead of the Things that we know to be better for us All this kind of stuff is happening and We're stressed which depletes our Nutrients and we are living in a Polluted environment which means we're Using up more antioxidants and our food Is depleted in nutrients and we are and And and and we're having too much coffee Alcohol these things that deplete every Thing and so in reality modern living Means that nutritional supplements Vitamin supplements can be really Beneficial for lots of people with Probiotics We evolved in our microbiome evolved in An environment where we lived much more Closely with the Earth where we were Growing our own vegetables and picking Things from the ground and living much More closely with animals you know pigs

Sheep that kind of stuff and we were our Microbiome was much much more diverse we Ate seasonally so we ate different Things naturally we ate a lot more Fermented foods because it was a good Way of preserving things we had a very Different diet and lifestyle to what We've evolved to now which is like a Western type lifestyle where our Microbiome population is really really Different to what it was maybe even 50 Years ago certainly a hundred years ago And if we come compare a western Microbiome to someone who lives in rural Africa or rural China we can see ours is Just so inferior in so many ways and you Know people within that field would say That's why we're suffering with diabetes Cardiovascular disease depression Anxiety because our microbiome is so Affected and if we add into that the way That we eat now But also the fact that many of us would Have had lots of antibiotics growing up Which just kill off your microbiome we Also Um do all sorts of things as an impact We're more stress all that kind of stuff We we disinfect everything we've spent However many years doing this hand gel Stuff now all of these things were Careful with disinfectant everything Else all these things impact our Microbiome preservatives and food

Emulsifies and food all that stuff and Now we're in a situation where actually Our microbiomes are kind of just not Doing as good a job as they could do so Introducing more probiotic strains Especially some of these kind of less Commonly found microbial strange Bacterial strains can obviously reseed Our microbiome with lots of these Beneficial things that we need and these Impacts that they're having on us so you Know ideally we will eat beautifully and Perfectly all the time and we go out Into nature all the time we're hugging Trees and we're kissing trees and Touching the ground and all that kind of Stuff and introducing bacteria but in Reality that's not the world we live in So I think we have to take a pragmatic Look at that and think about what our Bodies need given the lifestyles that we Lead what's the what is the business of Being a dietitian look like if someone's Listening to this and they're thinking You know what this dietitian thing Sounds that sounds interesting would you Recommend it as a career and then I Guess what does the I guess building Your own business off the back end look Like as well yeah I mean it's a Fantastic career you can do I mean I've Done so many different things within Dietetics and you can do so many Different things and in theory if I got

Bored of talking about the gut which I Never will but if I did get one of that Tomorrow I could go and do some work and Become a diabetes dietitian you know I'd Have to do some go back to a basic level And train again but you know I could go And learn about and completely do have a Pivot you know so there's so many Different things available and now is a Great time to get into it because You know everyone's talking about it It's everywhere and it's becoming more And more important and more and more Well recognized which is amazing as a Profession Um one of the things that's super Important to remember is that you do a Three or four year degree or you do a Two year Masters then you need to go Into the NHS and learn how to do your Job right so people young people now say To me I just want to do what you do and I'm like I'm 15 years deep in my career Right I've been doing this for a long Time that eight years in the NHS five Years in Academia now I do what I do and Like you have got to do like you've got To do that time because every patient That you see in the NHS every Colleague's connection that you make is A bit like driving a car you do when you Pass your driving tests after that you Come across all the different things That you need to learn about and what

You need to bring to your practice if You as a new newly qualified dietitian Start trying to see patients in private Practice you're going to do them a Massive disservice because you just Don't know enough right and people are Paying you and they're going to be Really disappointed and they're going to Go away and they're going to say sorry Dietitian but should just tell me to eat More vegetables and drink more water Because that's all you know about right So you have to do your time you have to Pay your pages they say 10 000 hours Don't they that makes you an expert in Something and I think that probably Stands to reason with dietetics as well I have no idea how many years that is But I think you've got to go and learn On the job realistically in and you know In the UK we're so lucky to have the NHS As a learning facility like you can Learn everything you need to know from Everything in the NHS is incredible and Most countries would just killed to have That opportunity so as a dietitian it's Really important to go and learn your Craft find out which area you're really Interested in get really passionate About it because otherwise you're going To end up talking about something you Don't care about and hopefully it really Comes across how much I'm interested and Care about what I do because it makes a

Difference to your everyday life So it's really important page using that Way then so it's a business uh it works So the way that my business running in Lots of different ways but the way that My business runs is the dietitians that Work for me they mostly all still work In the NHS or work in other words or Working research but they will do a Profit split situation so we have a Ratio that they they take and I take so We attract all the patients and we do The promotion of everybody and we Maintain the website we have a full Admin Team all that kind of stuff the Dietitians will come and see their Patients and they take a cut of what we Take from them so they have a favorable Cut compared to other Clinics of what we Take and that business like Is I love it I'm really passionate about It because I really want to bring really Great evidence-based nutrition to people Who have medical conditions because Otherwise they see people and get Completely messed up and go in the wrong Direction but it's not necessarily a Hugely profitable business it's great I Love it I love seeing patients and I Will always do it but it's not Necessarily hugely profitable because You're just working on this profit split Situation so I would say that the Dietitians who work

For me basically cover the admin and Cover the costs and then I take the Profit of the patients that I see Essentially which is fine works well for Me Then the consultancy is much easier way Of having consistent Revenue so for Dietitians listening or someone who's Thinking about this is listening doing Having Clinic income and just to be Clear I only work in clinic two days a Week so I'm always physically present And from a CEO perspective always Present to run that business but like in Terms of clinic hours I do two days a Week in clinic then the other three days A week I do consultancy and having Consultancy income is super super Helpful and important because it's Consistent and it means that you know What you're getting whereas particularly When you're building up your clinic Business you are going to end up with Maybe three patients one week and no Patience the next week and that's just Not something you could live on So it takes time to build that up and Now I'm fully booked until May because Of the show which is amazing but also Just a bit overwhelming so uh yeah so You need a bit of everything and keeping Your fingers in pies is really important And now kind of adding more of the media Stuff in is really helpful so it's about

Having those multiple income streams I Think but really importantly I think it Really helps for them all to be on the Same thread because I spend a lot of Time trying to do some Social Media Stuff the more Social Media stuff I do Gets people into clinic so if I was on Social media talking about diabetes but I only see gut health patients it's not Going to work is it so talk about gut Health on there that feeds into there All my time is kind of you know on the TV talking about that Health that feeds Into clinic and it all works In synchrony as opposed to it being kind Of all over the place the power of Having a niche yeah exactly yeah we talk About the love for like YouTube channels And businesses and stuff yeah yeah I Guess even in the business I mean it's a Business right like your personal brand Is as the gut person yeah I mean it is a Virtual cycle yeah I never thought it Would be but this is what I'm doing yeah Um final question how how did you end up On TV what was the story there so I've Always done a little well since I was at Kings I've done a little bit of TV work Here and there mainly kind of you know On the one show where they go let's go And talk to our expert Sophie about this Particular thing so we got off and I've Done kind of inside the factory and uh How to lose weight well this kind of

Magaziney type diet shows that sort of Thing so I've done a fair bit of that Done a bit of live TV and then my lovely Friends Alana and Lisa who run a company Called the gut stuff had been pitching This show to channel four or what all to Production companies for ages Um about trying to bring gut health to The general population get people to Understand a bit more about it And they finally got commissioned by the Production company monkey and channel 4 Took it which we filmed a pilot I was Obviously screen tested but these are The kind of my friends so it was really What we wanted to work together screen Tested help them to kind of develop the Format a little bit and then in terms of Doing a bit more clinical stuff then Perhaps I think about doing before And then we filmed it so Channel 4 Commissioned it and we filmed it over The summer last year it's kind of the Process nice yeah it's been amazing and So far it's like doing Clinic book with All my mates right Like do people like recognize you on the Street now or like how do you know what I was so worried this is embarrassing Story I was so worried about being Recognized and I was saying to my agent Like wait who I got after I got the show I'm so worried about this I'm quite a Shy person naturally like when I'm

Talking about work I'm fine but when I'm On my own I'm like always with my dog Looking like and like I don't want People to be like oh that woman who Talks about poo on the TV the only Person who's recognized me so far is the Pest control man that was outside my House visiting a neighbor So it's fine yeah for sure but you know What's really nice is I I suspect that People are recognizing me because I've Heard a few conversations near me about The show and people saying have you seen That show on Channel 4 and stuff like That so maybe people are I guess what I'm doing is not I'm not on love Island Right as well I'm not having to people Aren't no one's fangirling me they're Just like oh that's interesting yeah I Think that's her which is a nice it's a Nice way of doing things for sure Um any so for someone who's listened to The end of this very long conversation I Think it's been like two and a half Hours sorry I'm super into the gut stuff They're like I really want to find out More what are some recommended resources That you can point people in the Direction of listen um the psychobiotic If you're interested in psychobiotics Psychobotic Revolution John cryan is an Amazing place to start it's really Accessible and so super super Interesting

Um the gut stuff who are part of the TV Show they um have amazing resources on Their website in terms of gut health and Things like that we've got loads of Blogs on our website which is City Dietitians.co.uk the girls who run our Social media channels at citydartitions We've got loads of really interesting Information coming up all the time on There they do an amazing job of running That and obviously I'm on social media At Sophie dietitian lots of stuff on There that people can pick up but There's yeah always sharing stuff so People can come along and find out Fantastic Sophie thank you so much it Has been wonderful pleasure thank you All right so that's it for this week's Episode of Deep dive thank you so much For watching or listening all the links And resources that we mentioned in the Podcast are going to be linked down in The video description or in the show Notes depending on where you're watching Or listening to this if you're listening To this on a podcast platform then do Please leave us a review on the iTunes Store it really helps other people Discover the podcast or if you're Watching this in full HD or 4k on YouTube then you can leave a comment Down below and ask any questions or any Insights or any thoughts about the Episode that would be awesome and if you

Enjoyed this episode you might like to Check out this episode here as well Which links in with some of the stuff That we talked about in the episode so Thanks for watching uh do hit the Subscribe button if you aren't already And I'll see you next time bye

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